D&D Rant: Drizzt is NOT 16th Level Ranger

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
So, I was going through some of my older 2e stuff and it occurs to me that Drizzt can in no way, be a 16th level Ranger. Ignoring the fact that his father trained him as a fighter, he went to a fighter school, and he can't perform any divine magic, but is some sort of Drow Ranger Alternative, Drizzt would simply be too high level. There are three areas I base my argument on.

1) Errtu

Errtu is a Balor. In 3e, a Balor has 13 HD and is CR 18. It would seem that in this case, Drizzt would be too low of a level to stand a chance against Errtu. However, Salvator primarily writes from a 2e background. We can see this both when he started writing his novels, as well as how the frostbrand weapon works in 2e (It goes from being a +3 weapon to a +6 weapon against fire creatures and would offer 10 fire resistance to Errtu's flames), as well as the fact that the Balor doesn't just use an implosion spell to kill Drizzt outright.

In 2e, a Balor also only has 13 HD, but challenge ratings are roughly calculated based on HD, not on the CR as it is in 3e. So a balor is roughly appropriate for a 13th level character to fight, although EXP value can also be used, which also roughly puts the Balor at around 13th level. Finally, I ran two battles with a Balor (using a shocking-type sword as Errtu used in his second battle with Drizzt). First, I will admit that in this situation, I did not use the balor to its fullest ability; it did not use its spells or wings, but rather went toe to toe with Drizzt in a direct battle. The goal here is to see roughly where Drizzt's direct combat skills are.

In the first battle, I used Drizzt's official stats as a 16th level ranger. You can find that here:
Drizzt DoUrden - 2nd ed. Stats

For those of you at home without access to 2e (or a loving God, apparently), you can look at the balor's stats here:
AD&D 2e Complete Monstrous Manual
AD&D 2e Complete Monstrous Manual

A couple things to note; first, whoever gave Drizzt his HP count was being rather generous. In 2e, after 9th level, characters stop gaining HD, but instead just get a standard HP increase. For fighters, it's +3 per level. That HP bonus accounts for 21 hit points, Drizzt's con bonus (+1 at 15 for 2e) accounts for 9 more. Dividing the remaining 62 HP between 9 levels, Drizzt got an average of 6.8 HP per level, which is far better than anyone I know. Either someone "overrolled" for Drizzt or very possibly confused 3e rules, which accounting for Con (+2 in 3e for 15 con) would leave 60 HP or about 3.75 HP per level. A more accurate role for Drizzt would be 6 HP per level, or 54 HP. Add his con modifier and his +21 HP kick from 10-16 and his HP is 84. I should note that I did not adjust Drizzt's HP for the actual battle scenario, but instead went with it "as is". To compare, Errtu's HP here is 65. That's an average of 5 HP per HD for 13 (as HD is 8 for monsters in 2e). Either way, Drizzt comes out with a much higher HP.

For this fight, Drizzt was given the initiative.

As a 16th level Ranger with a specialty in Scimitars, Drizzt gets 7/2 attacks. The fight lasted two and a half rounds. Drizzt took only 28 damage from Errtu's attack. Drizzt on the other hand did 95 points of damage in three rounds of attacks. The primary advantage was with his frostbrand weapon, which made it insultingly easy for Drizzt to banish Errtu.

Adjusting Drizzt's level down to 10th (yes, I know, but follow me here), we get a closer battle. Lowering Drizzt's level reduces the number of times he can hit Errtu (although I now just realized I didn't add Drizzt's specialty damage...so add another 18 damage to Errtu). Errtu was able to get in another full round of combat and was able to deal a bit more damage (luck of the die there). With Drizzt's level being 10, his HP fell to 48. So the battle goes from being insultingly easy to a life or death struggle (Drizzt was at 6 HP at the end of the fight, although I realize with the added damage Drizzt should have done for specialty damage, he'd have probably been at 11 HP).

What becomes apparent is how much more important the Frostbrand is for Round 2. Without Frostbrand, Round 1 is harder, but still pretty easy for Drizzt. For Round 2, Frostbrand becomes essential to victory. Without the +6 that it offers, it's really difficult for Drizzt to bring Errtu down. Running the numbers, it's much harder for Drizzt to land the blows he needs on Errtu at level 10 than it is level 16, where it's pretty easy. In Round 1, Drizzt needs a 5 to hit Errtu, in Round 2, he needs an 11.

2) Frost Giants

I don't have the battle with the frost giants on hand, but I always remembered that Drizzt never directly confronted a Frost Giant if he could avoid it. He preferred to attack from surprise when he had the opportunity. If you look at the 2e stats of a Frost Giant, you can see why a 10th level Drizzt would prefer this:
AD&D 2e Complete Monstrous Manual
Frost Giants have 14 HD and +1-4 HP. I got an average of 74 for the giant. All things considered, the Frost Giant deals more damage than Errtu does and has more hit points, with even a better chance of hitting, but Errtu has tougher AC (-8) whereas the Giant has 0. The fight is surprisingly, in Drizzt's favor. I found that the best way was for Drizzt to hit more often with his +5 Defender in this situation, for the extra bonus damage. The giant was dead in 3-4 rounds. At the same time, one single blow from the giant took Drizzt down to 31 HP.

3) the Nightwalker

In the book where Drizzt encounters a Nightwalker, he doesn't fight it alone. He's got Bruenor and a few other dwarves, including a cleric and I think a wizard. Running the numbers, it becomes painfully obvious that Drizzt can't fight this thing as easily as the other two monsters. The Nightwalker has difficulty hitting Drizzt, but the thing does 3d10 damage per hit (and it can attack twice). It tends to hit every couple of rounds, but that's enough to kill Drizzt before he's dwindled its HP down to half.

However, using the +5 Defender's ability to switch attack bonus to an AC bonus, it basically becomes impossible for this thing to hit Drizzt. It goes from needing a 13 to hit Drizzt to 18, which means it hits maybe once every 5 rounds. 3 Rounds for a lucky hit. In theory, Drizzt can kill the thing with a thousand cuts, but he needed 12 rounds to do it and was at 11 HP when he finally killed it. Toss in a few more characters and Drizzt could eek out a win against a Nightwalker.

Anyway, that's just my two-cents on this rather obscure (and unimportant) subject. I think Drizzt is more accurately portrayed as a 10th level Ranger, instead of the 16th level one. Although, I think an argument could be made for a 8th Fighter/8th Thief. That would have roughly the same THACO, Attack Rounds, and would allow for Drizzt to make use of Backstab, which works well with his ambush tactics that he prefers against large monsters. It's also worth noting his 3e incarnation makes use of a combination of fighter and rogue, as well as Ranger for his stats.
 
You missed my favorite, Drizz't somehow punches an Elder Brain to death. This suggests he has some sort of unknown class with "Bestow Idiot Ball" as a class feature given the Elder Brain apparently just forgot it could teleport away and decided not to use any of its vast array of psionic powers to stop a guy who's will save should be in the toilet.

3E makes it much worse as the Elder Brain also forgot it could fly, use 9th level spells, and simply escape to another dimension if Drizz't with his vast array of poor-Will-Save classes somehow kept making will saves. Also, it had to have decided this was an excellent time to turn off its regeneration since it would otherwise heal far faster than Drizz't could inflict damage by punching it.
 
You missed my favorite, Drizz't somehow punches an Elder Brain to death. This suggests he has some sort of unknown class with "Bestow Idiot Ball" as a class feature given the Elder Brain apparently just forgot it could teleport away and decided not to use any of its vast array of psionic powers to stop a guy who's will save should be in the toilet.

3E makes it much worse as the Elder Brain also forgot it could fly, use 9th level spells, and simply escape to another dimension if Drizz't with his vast array of poor-Will-Save classes somehow kept making will saves. Also, it had to have decided this was an excellent time to turn off its regeneration since it would otherwise heal far faster than Drizz't could inflict damage by punching it.

To be entirely fair, it was only his 5th FR book. I don't know why he wrote that scene like that, but it was incredibly stupid.
 
See, Drizzt is really a level 16 Gary Stu, having the powers needed by the writers at the time.

I actually disagree. I think the real problem with Salvatore's writing in regards to Drizzt, is that he's got all of these faggy emotions. He gets all mopey about how his race is super evil, he gets all mopey that he loves Cattie-brie, he gets all mopey when she thinks she dies, he gets all mopey when she does die, and he can't stop crying when all of his friends die. Having a character who is constantly misunderstood, lonely, and pained gets tiring real quick.

All things considered, the only part that comes off as Gary Stu is the Dark Elf Trilogy, where he is considered a prodigy among dark elf warriors. That said, apart from his natural talents as a child, he was trained by the finest weapon master in the city from 16 to, I think, 26, and then went to an elite fighter college where he spent another ten years. The dude was in his 30s or 40s when he abandoned his home city and reached the surface.
 
As far as I am concerned, it is 2rd rate hacks who write novels set in specific universes. And the rule of cool rules. 3rd rate hacks write sourcebooks ...
Salvatore is not a DM/munchkin who knows the ruleset and bestiary inside out.

I've never gone beyond the original trilogy. Even reading the 3rd book was sunk cost fallacy ...
elite fighter college
I'm not sure about the elite part. IIRC in Drow society the smart girls of the nobility go to Priestess Academy - 40 years, the bright boys and not so smart girls go to the Wizard Academy - 20 years, while the dumb girls and not so smart boys end up in the Military Community College - 10 years.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, Salvatore wasn't chained to the rulebooks at the waist, he got catapulted to fame due to his very kinetic style of writing that reads more like an old-fashioned swashbuckler novel instead of worrying about what level his character was and how many spells they had today. At the time this was fairly new to DnD fiction and it drew some attention. Ironically several later sourcebooks were basically aimed at recreating his writing style, from Rangers getting the option for two-weapon fighting as a class feature to the Book Of Nine Swords having actual fighting styles that granted mechanical bonuses for jumping around like a loon.
 
Doubtful, Drizz't predates the Prequel trilogy by about a decade and Jedi didn't really spend much of their fights hopping around in the OT. If anything it's more likely to be the other way around.

I always had the impression that Salvatore drew more from the Errol Flynn swashbuckling movies.
 
As far as I am concerned, it is 2rd rate hacks who write novels set in specific universes. And the rule of cool rules. 3rd rate hacks write sourcebooks ...
Salvatore is not a DM/munchkin who knows the ruleset and bestiary inside out.

I've never gone beyond the original trilogy. Even reading the 3rd book was sunk cost fallacy ...

I'm not sure about the elite part. IIRC in Drow society the smart girls of the nobility go to Priestess Academy - 40 years, the bright boys and not so smart girls go to the Wizard Academy - 20 years, while the dumb girls and not so smart boys end up in the Military Community College - 10 years.

Well, we saw that they dedicated a large amount of time to indoctrination. If you were to base all American academics around SJW ideology (as opposed to interjection that they have now), you'd be there for 10-20-40 years too.

His third book was crap though.

And I didn't suggest that he was a DM/munchkin. If anything, the usual complaint is that Drizzt was always underpowered in the magical armaments department. Let's see, he had the magical hauberk, two scimitars, his anklets, his mask, the panther figurine, and maybe that bow? That's 7. Not bad for 8-9th level, but rather on the low end for most fighters.

But I think my point stands; if Drizzt were 16th level, he'd have generally overpowered Errtu on his own pretty quickly.
 
Doubtful, Drizz't predates the Prequel trilogy by about a decade and Jedi didn't really spend much of their fights hopping around in the OT. If anything it's more likely to be the other way around.

I always had the impression that Salvatore drew more from the Errol Flynn swashbuckling movies.

I suspect he was a fan of Elric of Melniboné.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top