An Austro-Hungarian stab-in-the-back of Germany during World War I?

[ahmed ali]

There is a proposal by Prince Sixtus, Duke of Parma, brother-in-law to the Emperor of Austria and Belgian soldier, to broker a separate peace

It stipulated that they would only give the lands to Italy, not to Serbia and Romania, because they would take nothing, only returning to the pre-war borders.

The Germans will be angry, but they cannot invade Austria because it is too mountainous

The Bulgarians and the Ottomans would sign a separate peace because German support was completely cut off

(Bulgaria will keep borders before the war because Greece is neutral, but the Ottomans will lose their Arab lands and open the straits for the Russians, but the chances of Turkey remaining a monarchy are much greater after the war without the Turkish national war and the Greco-Turkish war)

Russia, if this happens, will benefit greatly and may remain in the war, and this means a successful Kersinsky attack, with which the Russian provisional government will survive, and not the October Revolution.

Germany was hit hard, and their lines collapsed without the support of their allies, and the British and Russians liberated from their fronts and directed their forces towards the western front.

Reforms will happen more easily because the war is over, the economy has improved, no one likes the Hungarians, and if they revolt they will fail

 

[WolfBear]

There is a proposal by Prince Sixtus, Duke of Parma, brother-in-law to the Emperor of Austria and Belgian soldier, to broker a separate peace

It stipulated that they would only give the lands to Italy, not to Serbia and Romania, because they would take nothing, only returning to the pre-war borders.

The Germans will be angry, but they cannot invade Austria because it is too mountainous

The Bulgarians and the Ottomans would sign a separate peace because German support was completely cut off

(Bulgaria will keep borders before the war because Greece is neutral, but the Ottomans will lose their Arab lands and open the straits for the Russians, but the chances of Turkey remaining a monarchy are much greater after the war without the Turkish national war and the Greco-Turkish war)

Russia, if this happens, will benefit greatly and may remain in the war, and this means a successful Kersinsky attack, with which the Russian provisional government will survive, and not the October Revolution.

Germany was hit hard, and their lines collapsed without the support of their allies, and the British and Russians liberated from their fronts and directed their forces towards the western front.

Reforms will happen more easily because the war is over, the economy has improved, no one likes the Hungarians, and if they revolt they will fail

I'm not sure that Austria-Hungary's mountainous topography would be enough to prevent it from getting invaded. I could see Germany trying to do some kind of deal with the radical Pan-Germans combined with the Magyars where the radical Pan-Germans get their dream of being annexed to Germany after the end of the war if they will help Germany destroy A-H for stabbing the Central Powers in the back. Hungary would be given its independence and allowed to permanently do its own thing (oppressing minorities and peasants, et cetera) just so long as it remained allied to Germany. Not guaranteed that such a German move would actually work, of course, but it could, in which case demands for independence/separation might escalate among A-H's other nationalities.

 

[ahmed ali]

I'm not sure that Austria-Hungary's mountainous topography would be enough to prevent it from getting invaded. I could see Germany trying to do some kind of deal with the radical Pan-Germans combined with the Magyars where the radical Pan-Germans get their dream of being annexed to Germany after the end of the war if they will help Germany destroy A-H for stabbing the Central Powers in the back. Hungary would be given its independence and allowed to permanently do its own thing (oppressing minorities and peasants, et cetera) just so long as it remained allied to Germany. Not guaranteed that such a German move would actually work, of course, but it could, in which case demands for independence/separation might escalate among A-H's other nationalities.

The Hungarian aristocracy stood no chance if they rebelled, and if they did, even an ethnic Hungarian would turn against them in favor of the Habsburg Emperor.

(Literally no one loved them, so if they rebelled, the Hungarian army would gladly arrest them.)

The radical Germans are a minority, and the idea of joining Germany occurred only because of the loss and disintegration of the empire. This will not happen here, because no one would want a coup if the emperor ended a hated war.

 

[ATP]

There is a proposal by Prince Sixtus, Duke of Parma, brother-in-law to the Emperor of Austria and Belgian soldier, to broker a separate peace

It stipulated that they would only give the lands to Italy, not to Serbia and Romania, because they would take nothing, only returning to the pre-war borders.

The Germans will be angry, but they cannot invade Austria because it is too mountainous

The Bulgarians and the Ottomans would sign a separate peace because German support was completely cut off

(Bulgaria will keep borders before the war because Greece is neutral, but the Ottomans will lose their Arab lands and open the straits for the Russians, but the chances of Turkey remaining a monarchy are much greater after the war without the Turkish national war and the Greco-Turkish war)

Russia, if this happens, will benefit greatly and may remain in the war, and this means a successful Kersinsky attack, with which the Russian provisional government will survive, and not the October Revolution.

Germany was hit hard, and their lines collapsed without the support of their allies, and the British and Russians liberated from their fronts and directed their forces towards the western front.

Reforms will happen more easily because the war is over, the economy has improved, no one likes the Hungarians, and if they revolt they will fail

No revolution - no communism.Much better world.Well,there would be no free Poland,too - but we were free only for 20 years and becomed Moscov vassal state anyway,so...only difference for us - Poland as Russia vassal state,ruled by nationalists.
Since they supported free market,it would be better economically for us.

 

[stevep]

I'm not sure that Austria-Hungary's mountainous topography would be enough to prevent it from getting invaded. I could see Germany trying to do some kind of deal with the radical Pan-Germans combined with the Magyars where the radical Pan-Germans get their dream of being annexed to Germany after the end of the war if they will help Germany destroy A-H for stabbing the Central Powers in the back. Hungary would be given its independence and allowed to permanently do its own thing (oppressing minorities and peasants, et cetera) just so long as it remained allied to Germany. Not guaranteed that such a German move would actually work, of course, but it could, in which case demands for independence/separation might escalate among A-H's other nationalities.

I would agree that terrain isn't a key issue, although time and the available resources might be if such a peace was agreed. Germany will have lost a lot of numbers on the eastern front and either have to pull back some way or really stretch out their forces to try and hold the existing front line. If they do pull back that not only isolated Bulgaria and Turkey from them but any forces fighting Romania which will be able to continue resisting.

Also, given how bloody the war has been and how grim the economic situation by 1916 then emperor Karl offers both peace and political reform other than extremists on both sides he's going to be very popular and any attempt by a coup by Germany could get very messy and cost them even more very quickly. Even more so if an Austro-Russia peace also means an exchange of respective POWs as that would further boost Karl's popularity with a lot of sons/brothers/fathers returning home and at least some loyalists captured fairly early in the war.

Of course the other unknown here - apart from getting the allies to agree to Austrian terms - I thought the Austrian terms also rejected ceding any lands to Italy either but could be remembering wrongly - could both sides keep such an operation secret from the rest of the central powers?

 

[WolfBear]

Of course the other unknown here - apart from getting the allies to agree to Austrian terms - I thought the Austrian terms also rejected ceding any lands to Italy either but could be remembering wrongly - could both sides keep such an operation secret from the rest of the central powers?

Karl agreed to give up Trentino to Italy in exchange for compensation elsewhere. It's not much, but it's something.

 

[ahmed ali]

No revolution - no communism.Much better world.Well,there would be no free Poland,too - but we were free only for 20 years and becomed Moscov vassal state anyway,so...only difference for us - Poland as Russia vassal state,ruled by nationalists.
Since they supported free market,it would be better economically for us.

Poland would become a constitutional monarchy with Archduke Karl Stefan as King Charles I

(He's Polish, Poles love him, and he speaks Polish)

 

[ahmed ali]

I would agree that terrain isn't a key issue, although time and the available resources might be if such a peace was agreed. Germany will have lost a lot of numbers on the eastern front and either have to pull back some way or really stretch out their forces to try and hold the existing front line. If they do pull back that not only isolated Bulgaria and Turkey from them but any forces fighting Romania which will be able to continue resisting.

Also, given how bloody the war has been and how grim the economic situation by 1916 then emperor Karl offers both peace and political reform other than extremists on both sides he's going to be very popular and any attempt by a coup by Germany could get very messy and cost them even more very quickly. Even more so if an Austro-Russia peace also means an exchange of respective POWs as that would further boost Karl's popularity with a lot of sons/brothers/fathers returning home and at least some loyalists captured fairly early in the war.

Of course the other unknown here - apart from getting the allies to agree to Austrian terms - I thought the Austrian terms also rejected ceding any lands to Italy either but could be remembering wrongly - could both sides keep such an operation secret from the rest of the central powers?

In fact, France and the United Kingdom will continue to marginalize Italy

(Lloyd George and Clemenceau deliberately underestimated Italy's gains)

George V loved Charles so much that he had the Secret Service rescue him when his cousin threw the Russian Tsars to his fate, and Clemenceau invested heavily in the Separate Peace.

The rest, I agree, add that he announced preparations for elections and reforms

 

[ATP]

Poland would become a constitutional monarchy with Archduke Karl Stefan as King Charles I

(He's Polish, Poles love him, and he speaks Polish)

It could worked.You knew - it would be better for us then any polish goverment after 1918 in OTL.Sight,if we only have normal King like Karl Stefan now....

 

[ahmed ali]

It could worked.You knew - it would be better for us then any polish goverment after 1918 in OTL.Sight,if we only have normal King like Karl Stefan now....

And add that this kingdom of Poland will be bigger and stronger

In addition, a larger number of kingdoms will survive or be established

Like the Kingdom of Lithuania under the Duke of Urach and the Baltic Duchy under the Duke of Mecklenburg will survive

Along with the Kingdom of Montenegro and the Ottoman Empire (reduced to the borders of present-day Turkey)

There will be a Kingdom of Ukraine led by Vasily von Habsburg (Archduke Wilhelm, son of Karl Stefan)

We may see the Kingdom of Carlist Spain (Franco will court Austria by appointing the Duke of Parma as King of Spain)

 

[ATP]

And add that this kingdom of Poland will be bigger and stronger

In addition, a larger number of kingdoms will survive or be established

Like the Kingdom of Lithuania under the Duke of Urach and the Baltic Duchy under the Duke of Mecklenburg will survive

Along with the Kingdom of Montenegro and the Ottoman Empire (reduced to the borders of present-day Turkey)

There will be a Kingdom of Ukraine led by Vasily von Habsburg (Archduke Wilhelm, son of Karl Stefan)

We may see the Kingdom of Carlist Spain (Franco will court Austria by appointing the Duke of Parma as King of Spain)

Then,we have normal Europe without WW2 and lgbt shit.And ENTIRE WORLD WITHOUT COMMIES.
Pity,That A-H do not backstabbed germans,then.

 

[ahmed ali]

Then,we have normal Europe without WW2 and lgbt shit.And ENTIRE WORLD WITHOUT COMMIES.
Pity,That A-H do not backstabbed germans,then.

Unfortunately