American Alchemy- An ASB 'disappears' all the gold and silver of the Americas in 1292 AD

raharris1973

Well-known member
An ASB by the name of Mama Killa Metztli Kukulkan, MKMK for short, who can observe multiple earth times simultaneously, decides she really hates Spanish conquistadors, she just really does. But she also kind of dislikes treasure-hoarding/displaying ostentatious rulers, priests and nobility in American western hemispheric societies.

So the punishment she inflicts on them both is to convert all the gold and silver in the Americas, both that already worked by the human hand, lying as dust or nuggets on the surface or riverbeds, or underground and diggable by any technology invented by humans before 1950, into another material.

She does this in 1292 AD by simply 'sliding' each of these elements, wherever they appear, 'down' the periodic table of elements by however many protons (and other atomic particles) needed, for them to become another, non-monetizeable element.

Accordingly, all the gold in the Americas, in any form, loses two protons, and as many neutrons and electrons needed, to become iridium. To avoid disastrous nuclear reactions and energy releases from gold atomic nuclei, all protons, other atomic particles, and energy generated in the conversion process is instantly teleported to outer space to disperse harmlessly. Gold had to lose two protons to become iridium, because losing just one would make it platinum, and, although humans did not yet recognize platinum as precious, Mama Killa Metztli Kukulkan, MKMK for short, know that in a matter of centuries Europeans will see it as precious, and she ain't taking no chances.

In a similar way, all the silver in the Americas, in any form, loses one proton, and as many neutrons and electrons needed, to become palladium. The same teleportation safeguards apply.

To avoid harm including poisoning or accidents to humans or animals, anyone wearing gold or silver jewelry as a piercing, or against the skin, has the precious metal objects disattach and fly off their body safely before transforming. If the resulting iridium or palladium metallic object would be poisonous to the touch, it reacts to human or animal attempts at contact by moving further away and dispersing into a dust that no creature inhales. The same with any serving ware or eating utensils.

Anyone on gold or silver furniture is deposited to safe, balanced, sitting, standing, or kneeling position, to avoid injury if their furniture breaks or disappears with the elemental change.

MKMK does *not* protect against social harms, or knock on cultural disruption. So I do suspect that in more than one society, some priests and kings will lose their heads or hearts, or both, at the hands of their elite classes, elite warriors, or capital populace, in reaction to the sudden universal disappearance of all silver and gold that represents wealth, displays power, and has ceremonial significance. This is a big supernatural shock, and some people will inevitably conclude regarding their priests or kings, while pondering lost objects, wealth or status, 'ya done pissed off the gods'.

That should lead to some regime changes in the Americas between 1292 and 1492, and American societies will find different ways to decorate, make ceremonial and practical items, display power, and measure wealth, besides gold and silver over that time.

Come 1492 and European contact, and the decades after, no native Americans will have living memory of gold or silver, and oral or written memory of it will be an increasingly distant legend.

European explorers won't see natives wearing any. Natives won't think of any neighbors who have any. Europeans won't find any in riverbeds. The Americas are going to be disappointing as can be. Pretty much no spices, at least none anybody has heard of, and no precious metal.

The European, and global, bullion famine will continue. No rapid wealth for Spain. No rapid influx of Spanish stolen precious metals to China. No Chinese ability to switch the monetary and tax collection system to a silver only one. No rapid Spanish inflation.

How do global economics and geopolitics play out?

How does the Franco-Spanish rivalry play out?

How much is new world exploration and colonization slowed down.

Does European enterprise via the Indian Ocean and spice trade go just as fast?

What about European enterprise via the Atlantic Ocean and sugar plantation economies?
 
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How do global economics and geopolitics play out?
This changes world history beyond recognition by 1550/1600.
How does the Franco-Spanish rivalry play out?
French win two centuries earlier.
How much is new world exploration and colonization slowed down.
Very.
Does European enterprise via the Indian Ocean and spice trade go just as fast?
Yes.
What about European enterprise via the Atlantic Ocean and sugar plantation economies?
Slower, as there is less money in the economy worldwide, and fewer affluent buyers in Latin America.

BTW - this is a Brit screw as much as an Iberian&Habsburg screw.
 
An ASB by the name of Mama Killa Metztli Kukulkan, MKMK for short, who can observe multiple earth times simultaneously, decides she really hates Spanish conquistadors, she just really does. But she also kind of dislikes treasure-hoarding/displaying ostentatious rulers, priests and nobility in American western hemispheric societies.

So the punishment she inflicts on them both is to convert all the gold and silver in the Americas, both that already worked by the human hand, lying as dust or nuggets on the surface or riverbeds, or underground and diggable by any technology invented by humans before 1950, into another material.

She does this in 1992 AD by simply 'sliding' each of these elements, wherever they appear, 'down' the periodic table of elements by however many protons (and other atomic particles) needed, for them to become another, non-monetizeable element.

Accordingly, all the gold in the Americas, in any form, loses two protons, and as many neutrons and electrons needed, to become iridium. To avoid disastrous nuclear reactions and energy releases from gold atomic nuclei, all protons, other atomic particles, and energy generated in the conversion process is instantly teleported to outer space to disperse harmlessly. Gold had to lose two protons to become iridium, because losing just one would make it platinum, and, although humans did not yet recognize platinum as precious, Mama Killa Metztli Kukulkan, MKMK for short, know that in a matter of centuries Europeans will see it as precious, and she ain't taking no chances.

In a similar way, all the silver in the Americas, in any form, loses one proton, and as many neutrons and electrons needed, to become palladium. The same teleportation safeguards apply.

To avoid harm including poisoning or accidents to humans or animals, anyone wearing gold or silver jewelry as a piercing, or against the skin, has the precious metal objects disattach and fly off their body safely before transforming. If the resulting iridium or palladium metallic object would be poisonous to the touch, it reacts to human or animal attempts at contact by moving further away and dispersing into a dust that no creature inhales. The same with any serving ware or eating utensils.

Anyone on gold or silver furniture is deposited to safe, balanced, sitting, standing, or kneeling position, to avoid injury if their furniture breaks or disappears with the elemental change.

MKMK does *not* protect against social harms, or knock on cultural disruption. So I do suspect that in more than one society, some priests and kings will lose their heads or hearts, or both, at the hands of their elite classes, elite warriors, or capital populace, in reaction to the sudden universal disappearance of all silver and gold that represents wealth, displays power, and has ceremonial significance. This is a big supernatural shock, and some people will inevitably conclude regarding their priests or kings, while pondering lost objects, wealth or status, 'ya done pissed off the gods'.

That should lead to some regime changes in the Americas between 1292 and 1492, and American societies will find different ways to decorate, make ceremonial and practical items, display power, and measure wealth, besides gold and silver over that time.

Come 1492 and European contact, and the decades after, no native Americans will have living memory of gold or silver, and oral or written memory of it will be an increasingly distant legend.

European explorers won't see natives wearing any. Natives won't think of any neighbors who have any. Europeans won't find any in riverbeds. The Americas are going to be disappointing as can be. Pretty much no spices, at least none anybody has heard of, and no precious metal.

The European, and global, bullion famine will continue. No rapid wealth for Spain. No rapid influx of Spanish stolen precious metals to China. No Chinese ability to switch the monetary and tax collection system to a silver only one. No rapid Spanish inflation.

How do global economics and geopolitics play out?

How does the Franco-Spanish rivalry play out?

How much is new world exploration and colonization slowed down.

Does European enterprise via the Indian Ocean and spice trade go just as fast?

What about European enterprise via the Atlantic Ocean and sugar plantation economies?
One more thing - Poland had some gold and silver mines,but relatively small,and,as result of spanish gold,become not important.
Here,it would be still important - stronger polish King as a result.

And Spain,in long turn,would only get stronger thanks to lack of gold and colonial emire.

In North America we still would have fur traders coming there.
 
French win two centuries earlier.

So, does this mean the French beat out Spain for dominating influence in Italy, like Milan and Naples, by 1550-1580? Does this mean French conquests into the Habsburg Netherlands? North to Wallonia, the Rhine, or all the way to Holland, or perhaps just puppeting or satellitizing such areas? Does it mean reaching 'natural borders' in the east to the Rhine by 1600 or 1650?

Does France follow it's historic raison d'etat policy of being willing to be pro-Protestant, against the arch-Catholic Habsburgs, resulting in significantly greater successes for Lutheran Princes in Germany, and weakening of the Habsburg imperial hold over the HRE?

Does France similarly follow its pro-Ottoman policy, leading to greater Ottoman success in Central Europe, possibly leading in the decades after Mohacs, 1521-26, to the completion of Ottoman conquest of Hungary, then Ottoman conquest/vassalization of Austria, Bohemia, Silesia, Polish southern Galicia?

The last would be a knock on of great importance, because without new world gold and silver, those Central European areas would be even more vital centers of global precious metal mining, especially silver, and Ottoman taxation of it would be handy for them.

BTW - this is a Brit screw as much as an Iberian&Habsburg screw.
I guess inasmuch as England and France are usually enemies, yes.
One more thing - Poland had some gold and silver mines,but relatively small,and,as result of spanish gold,become not important.
Here,it would be still important - stronger polish King as a result.
What part of the country were they generally in? If in the south, like southern Galicia and Podolia, might they be vulnerable to Turkish occupation if the Habsburgs are financially weakened in this scenario?
In North America we still would have fur traders coming there.
I would think so, but would they get there as fast, with attempts in the mid-1500s, and real colonies by the early 1600s, without the inspiration of Spanish gold and silver rich conquests of the 1500s, and thinking they have a chance to find something similar.

Speaking to all on the Portuguese Indian Ocean trade - as Buba said, that should still advance, they will reach the spices and make money off of that. The Portuguese will use their superior ships and piracy to take over shipping between Asian ports from Asian fleets for awhile, and make money off of that. They won't have the money off of new world gold like Spain did to trade for Chinese silks.

But with Portugal having the only real colonial money maker for a century or two, would other countries more heavily, and successfully compete with them on the round Africa route to the east, and that trade, earlier than OTL?
 
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There is no Polish gold. There was one not very large galena mine, in Olkusz, nothing to write home about. There were dozens of such sites all across Central Europe.
British west-centricness overlooks that German, Czech, Polish, Serb - or Japanese, for that matter - etc. mines contributed to the silver glut of mid XVIth century as much as Spanish America did. It was only near the end of the XVIth century that Potosi dwarfed everything else.

I see the French winning victories in the early XVIth which they did not, as here they have the same money they had in OTL, while Karl V is a bare-assed pauper. But no curb stomp. With less money Karl will have to prioritise - I imagine all North African ventures (which are murder on the Treasury) to be butterflied away. He will fight smarter.
Without Castillian subsidies Ferdinand or one of his sons could go Lutheran. For both political and economic reasons.

BTW - China did not care about gold. Chinese has a word for silver, but gold is "yellow metal". I've read - no idea how much truth in it - is that Ming China sucked in half or more of silver production of Spanish America (plus more than half of Japanese mining). And that the Manchu won in part due to the lower silver inflow between the waning of Potosi and the expansion of Mexican production.
 
In the longer run - XVIIth century and later - with no Mexican silver there should be no slide of the gold:silver ratio. It had been 1:10 "since time immemorial". Maybe it reains like that "forever"?

Also, would there be a "Price Revolution"? The wiki is IMO of low quality (mentions operations of VOC and EIC in 16th century context, while both were established in the first decade of the 17th) but a primer on the issue nonetheless.

 
There is no Polish gold. There was one not very large galena mine, in Olkusz, nothing to write home about. There were dozens of such sites all across Central Europe.
British west-centricness overlooks that German, Czech, Polish, Serb - or Japanese, for that matter - etc. mines contributed to the silver glut of mid XVIth century as much as Spanish America did. It was only near the end of the XVIth century that Potosi dwarfed everything else.

I see the French winning victories in the early XVIth which they did not, as here they have the same money they had in OTL, while Karl V is a bare-assed pauper. But no curb stomp. With less money Karl will have to prioritise - I imagine all North African ventures (which are murder on the Treasury) to be butterflied away. He will fight smarter.
Without Castillian subsidies Ferdinand or one of his sons could go Lutheran. For both political and economic reasons.

BTW - China did not care about gold. Chinese has a word for silver, but gold is "yellow metal". I've read - no idea how much truth in it - is that Ming China sucked in half or more of silver production of Spanish America (plus more than half of Japanese mining). And that the Manchu won in part due to the lower silver inflow between the waning of Potosi and the expansion of Mexican production.
Good evaluation-
 
In the longer run - XVIIth century and later - with no Mexican silver there should be no slide of the gold:silver ratio. It had been 1:10 "since time immemorial". Maybe it reains like that "forever"?

Also, would there be a "Price Revolution"? The wiki is IMO of low quality (mentions operations of VOC and EIC in 16th century context, while both were established in the first decade of the 17th) but a primer on the issue nonetheless.

A lot of silver comes from indirect sources nowadays, when other minerals are mined, copper, lead, zinc etc.Poland produces lots of silver as a byproduct of mining copper.

Silver is a heavy metal and it is far more abundant on Earth, as opposed to gold, which came here via meteorites.

Also, this change will screw over the electronics industry, silver is iirc the best conductor and also a very good bactericidic.
 
Five of the top 10 silver producers are gone - Mexico, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Argentina ... and historically the USA also was a major player.
Gold is much less affected.
 
Five of the top 10 silver producers are gone - Mexico, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Argentina ... and historically the USA also was a major player.
Gold is much less affected.
Eventually more silver will be dug up as a byproduct.
But a number of industries will be fucked in the process.
 

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