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Slavery's proponents identified it as socialist?

American deaths in Vietnam (which was the war example I used) were like 30% draftee, but it's still true that they were young and the flu disproportionately hits oldsters.

Not in Vietnam, but all right.

Sorry, I can't get behind that sort of mathematical masturbation. Otherwise I'd be up in arms about all these memorials to war dead. I mean seriously, Vietnam? That's like a presidential term worth of influenza. Where's the Flu Memorial and why isn't it visible from space?

I am not especially knowledgeable on this but from what I've heard the failure of the case was more about prosecutorial incompetence and politics than an actually weak case on the fundamentals. https://www.historynet.com/the-trouble-with-treason-prosecuting-jefferson-davis.htm Also, you had...

*Literal traitors who are only famous for the literal treason they committed.

I wonder how much of a difference it made that most of the fighting was done on Southern home turf. Both in terms of morale and familiarity with the terrain. I thought they saw themselves as British and American without seeing a conflict, and that it was only later that the loyalist colonies...

As is Alta California, correct? So Mexican soldiers are American patriots? What I'm getting at is, what are your standards when you are deciding who qualifies as an American patriot? The CSA fought against the Union and they are American patriots. The Tories fought against the revolution and...

Thanks for the reply. We'll see. I think the standard understanding of "American patriot" involves loyalty to the United States, whether or not including the federal government per se, but I accept your answer. In that case, I presume you would also consider, for instance, loyalists to the...

Like how Hamilton and Burr were sending each other hate mail signed off with "Your Obedient Servant".

You make a fair point. For anybody who was just minding their own business in their home state, and then their state seceded and joined the Confederacy and they joined the army—if they never swore loyalty to the United States in the first place, it is not unreasonable to argue that we shouldn't...

I'm not entirely sure what you're expecting to happen after that trial is over. But I'm curious what you thought about part of my earlier post that I don't believe you responded to: getting back to the Confederacy—they were not patriots of the USA. Perhaps you could call them patriots of the...

You absolutely can, the question is how good the argument is and whether you agree with it. For instance, you could say that he resolved the clash between on the one hand his ideals expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the revolutionary emancipation movement etc. and on the other...

Jefferson was more opposed to slavery than you seem to be. "we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other." Slavery is unjust, in his own words. And he saw it as corrosive to society: "The man must be...

This is for Hebrew slaves, though; there were also the non-Hebrew forever slaves. However, they were still probably better off, relative to their masters, than antebellum slaves. Your menservants and maidservants shall come from the nations around you, from whom you may purchase them. 45You may...

You're gonna need to find a defense that doesn't also require you to defend slavery if you want people to get on board. That's just being realistic.

I am 0% worried about Islamic immigrants culturally dominating the United States, like they're at about 1% now—or less? We'd have to get multiple millions per year for decades before there was much danger. Maybe a huge influx could seize control of a localized political unit but a problem like...

I think the key disagreement might be around the slippery slope thing, actually. From my point of view, you're treating it like a greased teflon mountain when it's more of a sandy molehill.

None of those things require us to say the Confederacy was a good thing or that it was good when people fought for it or that it they were being patriots (with respect to the USA) when they literally committed literal treason. If you cannot be proud of your ancestors without being proud of...

I have no idea what you're talking about. I think it's reasonable for local people to reconsider whether to continue to give pride of place in their public spaces to monuments to white supremacy that happen to have a Confederate label slapped on them. And, if it's reasonable for a town to have...