1. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Possibly, for the Black population. Hispanic civil rights was achieved much earlier IOTL and we have documented evidence of Hispanic Colonels in the C.S. military, for example. Growing international pressure and alternative means look more attractive; paying a low wage, while not being legally...
  2. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    It was, but cotton remained the single largest export in value until like 1936. Most U.S. industrial production was for internal consumption, for example. Native Americans probably keep most of OTL Oklahoma to themselves, with a degree of autonomy but highly integrated culturally; the Five...
  3. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    When I'm able to cite historians showing it extremely unlikely, I think it's fair to be insistent you take their arguments seriously rather than handwave them away. No goal posts have been shifted and if you want to make a point specific about the CSA, feel free to do so but on its own. If...
  4. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Again, there is nothing to suggest he would be able to stabilize his reign: Shawcross’ book chronicles Maximilian’s multiple missteps: his liberalism won over some Juaristas but alienated the support of conservatives and the Catholic Church. Adopting the grandsons of Mexico’s first, equally...
  5. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Hence why I have them wait until Maxmillian dies, as that gives them time to both rebuild and expand their influence, while presenting themselves as a stabilizing force against the chaos sure to come otherwise. Which underlines my point about the C.S.A. being the only real option for Mexico...
  6. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    The situation is not at all drastically different, as the CSA controlled Texas historically until 1865. France will still pull out for the main reason it had historically, which was to re-focus on Europe to deal with the looming final wars of German reunification. Neither was Britain will to...
  7. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    He tried historically and failed exactly this is why it wouldn't work. He attempted liberal policies to win over the opposition, which failed and alienated the conservatives. It also has reasons not to do so, as evidenced by it letting France do exactly this in the 1860s, as well as economic...
  8. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    I think the fact that between the two of us, I'm the one actually able to provide citations for my reasoning speaks volumes as to the contrary. Instead of insults, why not address the arguments? As for the link, here you go.
  9. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Except this is not true, starting with the grain situation. If U.S. supply was removed, the British would be eating exactly as they had in 1859....or 1866/1867. American Wheat was fairly cheap and was able to displace Russia at this time on the basis of that, but the UK wouldn't go hungry...
  10. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Except Maxmillian was rejected by the Liberals for being a Monarch and supported by foreigners, while he alienated the Conservatives during his reign; this is why his regime rapidly went down hill as soon as France started pulling support. France, in response to events in Europe, will still have...
  11. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Indeed, that's often how industrialization starts. No one is denying the Confederacy started with a lower industrial base than the North, that tweet thread I cited and my own arguments were projecting out in terms of long term trends. And the U.S. started in the 1780s with none; I think you...
  12. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    The bit concerning railway construction is about the rate of railway building, in which the South started to pull ahead in the 1850s. When the war started, possibly, but as the war continued industrialization came to the South and would continue to do so in the event of victory.
  13. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Yes, more Hapsburgs. Reason I'm doubtful of that play is because, by 1870, neither Austria nor France are in a position to help with such. The C.S.A. by necessity will have become the primary patron of the regime, and a lack of options will erode Maxmillian's leverage.
  14. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    They were adopted, but he always refused to declare them his successors and no evidence exists he eventually intended to do this; more likely was an effort to bring in further European royals.
  15. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Indeed, its success depended upon a fabian strategy exhausting the North or foreign intervention. To that end, it's government maximized every advantage it had, but this effort was helped because a lot of these trends existed Pre-War.
  16. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    A timeline idea I've played around with is an 1863/1864 victory for the CSA. They have over a decade to get the debt paid off and rebuild, while E.P. Alexander is able to get Richmond to buy up the British Armstrong guns when the UK begins to sell them off. Meanwhile in the United States, as a...
  17. History Learner

    If the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, is the Union going to become revanchist over the next several decades and beyond?

    Exactly right: Most recent research in the last 20 years is trending in this direction as well; the C.S.A. was extremely centralized and State Capitalist. Important reminder the U.S. learned nothing from the Civil War or even the Anglo-French when it entered World War I, resulting in the...
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