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Yeah, we get Dukat's statement about shields in the finale of season five. They'd done a lot of skirmishing with the Dominion by then.

That's why I said it was an "early sucker punch." It's also a good argument for the value of Starfleet having so much emphasis on science.

The Dominion also had a bit of an early sucker punch in that their polaron beams ignored Federation (and everybody else's) shields. The fact that Federation ships were managing to fight back and win victories when they were effectively unshielded speaks volumes for how good of warships they were.

I agree. Starfleet's a military. They just also happen to have a massive science branch because most things you want to science in the Trek universe will suck all the salt from your body, somehow teleport out your blood, devolve you into a furry, erase you from existence, alter time so that...

You have your facts rather backwards. Picard sucker-punched the Ferengi with "The Picard Maneuver" and that's the only way he survived, and he still lost the Stargazer. The Ferengi pirates in "The Last Outpost" have their ship called "An impressive design." by Picard and their tech is stated...

I'm not sure we can take it as a given that pirates are light raiders and poorly equipped. The pirates we've seen in Trek are usually as well equipped as the Federation itself. Picard lost the Stargazer to pirates, and Ferengi pirates later captured the Enterprise D in the episode Rascals and...

I know personal shields exist but presumably they have some limitations that prevent everybody who isn't the Borg from using them all the time. I haven't seen anything along the lines of a motorcycle to jeep-sized shield generator that would, presumably, provide far better protection and cover...

One tech we might see for ground forces is a portable shield generator. I recall in Star Wars Saga Edition there was an astromech droid that could be modified to have a small umbrella shield with about a ten meter radius, just enough to cover the party and prevent "we lost the surprise round"...

Well that does seem more reasonable, but even in DS9 remember that the Jem'Hadar deployed invisible smart mines on the ground and the Federation managed to hack them and turn them against the Jem'Hadar. Drones might be viable but it seems like you need organics running a tight rein on any...

"We can use the deflector dish to confuse it's aim so that the drone fires 30 degrees off target, hitting it's own target designator." This is basically what they did to the Cardassian orbital weapons platforms, they used the deflector dish to spoof their targeting system and made the platforms...

The hypocrisy is strong with this one. Alright I think we're all tired of whaling on Battlegrinder's minimal-effort posts so Imma go back to the OP again. 1.) What would a Federation battlefleet look like in comparison to Starfleet? While the Defiant is a fine proof-of-concept I don't think...

Going to just ignore their defense in Best of Both Worlds since it doesn't support you huh? And the Vaadwaur explicitly also using them to attack, that's just irrelevant since it doesn't support you? You know, you're really adopting some horrible debating habits here. You refuse to prove...

But the Federation do use fighters, don't they? So they must actually, y'know, use fighters. Hence they're using the same thing as aliens, albeit more advanced and capable models. You're arguing that Federation fighters must occupy a completely different niche than aliens with no proof...

Not Shown: Battlegrinder presenting some of his claimed "dozens and dozens" of examples. And what kind of fighting is a botanist and composer qualified for? If botany disqualifies her from flying an armed shuttle why doesn't it disqualify her from operating a fixed gun emplacement or otherwise...

That sure is convenient for you isn't it? Well then not any evidence for your position either, is there? Since you had "dozens and dozens" no doubt you can find several better ones that don't have this ambiguity? I mean, in your next quote you're complaining about how I only have four times...

After boiling the oceans dry, killing every scrap of vegetation, and vaporizing every man-made structure? Really that's your idea? How tough do you think these colonists are? DATA: Sensors are scanning ninety degrees of longitude as we orbit. I am detecting no bodies of water, no vegetation...

Alright I concede the point, that's quite plausible. So since my four examples were not enough evidence for Battlegrinder, and he only has one so far, let's see what shows up next.

And does that also mean no light craft? Bajor also had no interstellar spacecraft but they have Bajoran fighters. The script suggests something was available because: 1: The Husnock bombarded the planet from Orbit, destroying all structures and even all surface water. 2: According to the...

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Peregrine_class It would not appear to be so from looking at the Memory Alpha page, which links to Ex Astris Scientia but not Eaglemoss, and in fact directly contradicts the information on Battlegrinder's image. I'll retract my statement if anybody can show...

Show us some of these dozens then. Where can you point to an episode where there's an attack on a space-faring planet and: 1: There are no Starships available to provide. 2: The planet provably does not scramble any fighters. If there's dozens and dozens you shouldn't have a problem finding...