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  1. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    Darn, I knew I should have checked ex astra sciencia first. Though after checking,it turns out we're both right/wrong, as the battle bridge was actually the bridge from the TOS films redressed for TNG, rather then a set built for TNG. But as they only used it 3 times in the series as the...
  2. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    I'd not that thr cost of doing separation shots is a non-factor or nearly a non-factor, because that's not how stock footage works. You shoot the separation once, and then it's done, you have the footage to use as much as you want and don't have to refilm. In fact, getting that footage is...
  3. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    Oh, GT meant cyber security, I misunderstood what you were responding to (I didn't watch the video, I'm not giving those idiots ad revenue). I have to point out that the sky is not exactly crowded with navigational hazards either, and pilots still demand physical controls rather than...
  4. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    That's a generally good response to a lot of "criticism" of ST designs, their main defense is shields, not armor. Once those shields are down, the ship's hull is not strong enough to provide a meaningful defense, so locating the bridge deeper inside the hull or something wouldn't actually do...
  5. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    I think this might be a...translation issue, for lack of a better word. When people like @Lord Sovereign say starfleet needs a "marine corps" I don't think they mean it in the sense of the modern US marines where starfleet should have a completely seperate service branch. They mean it in the...
  6. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    I have to disagree with this bit. Starfleet security is actually portrayed very well, as internal security. They can keep order on one of starfleet's city-sized ships, deal with the crew and passengers, etc, but that is one thing, actual pitched combat is another. For point one, normal...
  7. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    I don't think that "Only quote Shakespeare and do science stuff and never prepare for any sort of armed conflict or else the space God will wipe out your species" was the intended message of TNG.
  8. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    The Organians were mostly likely making a massive bluff regarding their power to stop conflict between the federation and the Klingons, given that such a conflict has broken out multiple times (Season 3 DS9, Yesterday's Enterprise, STO, etc), and they have never once acted on their threat to...
  9. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    That sure sounds like they got sucker punched to me. He took a potshot, did nothing, then ran away. So yes, you're overstating things. That's totally wrong. Caretaker takes place in 2371, The dominion didn't wipe them out for another year. As for the clip, yeah, they took out a shuttlecraft...
  10. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    OOU, yes, though it's actually even earlier than that, there was a proto-Nova design floating around in the TNG technical manual.
  11. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    You're overstating things a bit there. Picard lost the stargazer because he was sucker punched by a ferengi warship, and later lost the enterprise because they were corced into it, the ship itself wasn't overpowered. Likewise with Baran's ship, which required inside access to the Enterprise-D's...
  12. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    I think you might not be grasping my position here. Can you please restate in your own words what you think I'm saying or demanding? Then I'm not sure. There's plenty of one-off issues here and there, but nothing that strikes me as a systemic problem. I'm not sure how you're squaring the...
  13. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    Well, as I see it you don't need a lot of punch to take down the odd pirate, you just need to be able to get there in time, which means being fast, and you need to be close enough to get there, which means numbers. But you'll also want them tough, if you're losing a bunch of ships that gives the...
  14. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    As for what a federation battlefleet should look like, I think the first step is to establish what sort of threats it will be facing. I can envision 3: 1. Small, scattered bands of light raiders. Nothing capable of standing up to a serious warship toe to toe, but more than capable of...
  15. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    I feel like that example is a bit of a motte and bailey, though. "This door should designed differently" is a very differant and less controversial claim than "this import set piece battle never happened". Halo Nightfall had UNSC infantry weapons not able to be fired unless they were "powered...
  16. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    Also, Sixth, I think you're projecting a little bit of my old arguments onto this thread, or I failed to clearly communicate them. Will edit the later, want to get posted now in case you're already responding. Edit: I don't think the federation is stupid, or that they build thier tech badly, or...
  17. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    I think this is the crux of our disagreement, so I'll skip the other posts and just address the point here. From what I gather, you view the ST series as a sort of rough approximation of what "really" happened (expect for some visual stuff and most of the dialogue, that's ironclad for some...
  18. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    1. Workforce. And you only need 1 to prove it possible. 2. They only mentioned the guidence system, but the payload was also reconfigured, and given that the ship can't go anywhere near that deep, even with it's vastly greater power generation and special shields to protect it, obviously the...
  19. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    Given that the federation uses starfighters in offensive fleet action and aliens use them as a defensive force, they do occupy difference niches. Actually, now that I think of it, that does in fact undermine your point yet again. Sisko was shocked to civilians duking it out with one another in...
  20. Battlegrinder

    Star Trek The Birth of a Federation Military

    Firing a phaser or something takes next to no training, as compared to being a fighter pilot. As I mentioned and you didn't address, all of those aliens were technologically inferior, in two cases vastly so, and technology has a massive influence on tactics. Fighter might not be unknown to the...
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