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  1. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    Sure, whatever. Why is it fine for government to allow a person to do it to themselves, but not allow another to do it? That's my issue here. Square this circle please. That's you showing yourself off, outside your own property. And note, there are times this is legal too, such as when a man...
  2. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    Sure, fine, let's use crippling as your limiting principle. This still bring us to this:
  3. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    What's the limiting principle here that stops this here? Harm to others (namely that the loud noise stops one from sleeping or similar). What's your limiting principle to stop the surgery? Insanity, as defined by whoever. One of those is measurable, as someone complains of harm to themselves...
  4. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    ... No one here is forcing externalities onto others. I'm advocating that they get a surgery for themselves that they pay for and the surgeon consents to doing. Yes, I'm aware of externalities. No, they don't justify the government coming and putting guns to people's heads. If you allow that to...
  5. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    It's irrelevant whether it's good or bad, what matters is that you want to go to daddy government to solve problems that daddy government is causing through the educational system, and can't see the inherent problem here. If people are coerced, that's fine to punish. If people are lied to...
  6. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    And this is also wrong? Again, if the person is otherwise sane, just hates there left leg that much, then sure, why shouldn't they have the right to have it cut off, if they can get a surgeon to agree to do it? It isn't your business. Understand my bar for someone stepping in and using force to...
  7. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    With both people's consent. There's 100% a problem using violence to stop this. It's only different if someone does it without consent. No. How is it morally different than other plastic surgeries people get, which make one look absurd (like Madonna?). Take Blaire White. She's done all the...
  8. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    I see a huge moral problem with the idea that someone would use violence to stop an adult doing what they want to their own body.
  9. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    It ought to be. It's your body, you consented to it, it's the Doctor's labor, and they are consenting to do the operation. Why should government get involved? It's absolutely none of their business. As for it never helping, I know trans people for which it was helpful. I know 'trans' people who...
  10. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    First, the law != morality. Let's get that basic idea through peoples heads. Second, the stated reason for those laws isn't that it's immoral to knowingly want to do such a thing and then do it. It's that those laws enable police to legally respond to a situation where someone who completely...
  11. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    Why should you have a say over what adults do to their body? It's not yours to say. It's not government's either. I'm pretty sure it still is a medical condition, but yes, people aren't treating it as one.
  12. Abhorsen

    Breaking News Trans Activists Breach Oklahoma Capitol

    Anyway, back on the actual topic of the thread... I'm honestly against the 26 year old requirement. It's further infantilizing adults. We let 18 year olds decide to risk their lives in combat in war, where most of the deaths will come from suicide. That seems a fair age for allowing transition...
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