Amazon Prime Amazon Fallout series.

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Tbh I might get flak for it but I don't mind if the NCR collapsed, it'd make sense from a stand point that they overexpanded past the ability to sustain themselves.


Personally I suspect NCR collapsed into several minor states due to issues like corruption (Mentioned in New Vegas), famine (Mentioned in New Vegas) over expansion (Mentioned in New Vegas) and maybe the Courier nuking some of their territories.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Maybe it's part of the Multiverse. We'll get a season finale mid credits scene where the Calculator shows up revealing The Prisoner has escaped Tibbets and the EPA has been notified.
 

TyrantTriumphant

Well-known member
Tbh I might get flak for it but I don't mind if the NCR collapsed, it'd make sense from a stand point that they overexpanded past the ability to sustain themselves.


Personally I suspect NCR collapsed into several minor states due to issues like corruption (Mentioned in New Vegas), famine (Mentioned in New Vegas) over expansion (Mentioned in New Vegas) and maybe the Courier nuking some of their territories.
Do you actually expect Amazon and Bethesda to pull this off in way that respects the lore instead of retconing everything? Because I sure don't.

It's been clear since they included the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 76 that Bethesda don't respect the lore in the slightest. And yes, I know they came up with a bullshit explanation to include them but it was still bullshit. A lazy hand wave to justify whatever they wanted to do. I expect similar for how they destroy the NCR.

The NCR in New Vegas had problems but it was not a civilization on the verge of collapse. In decline perhaps but not on the verge of disintegrating. I could very well believe that the NCR as a nation could collapse into several smaller states, but that's not what this is. What Amazon has released so far indicates the destruction of civilization on the west coast not just the NCR as a political unit. And that I cannot believe.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Do you actually expect Amazon and Bethesda to pull this off in way that respects the lore instead of retconing everything? Because I sure don't.

It's been clear since they included the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 76 that Bethesda don't respect the lore in the slightest. And yes, I know they came up with a bullshit explanation to include them but it was still bullshit. A lazy hand wave to justify whatever they wanted to do. I expect similar for how they destroy the NCR.

The NCR in New Vegas had problems but it was not a civilization on the verge of collapse. In decline perhaps but not on the verge of disintegrating. I could very well believe that the NCR as a nation could collapse into several smaller states, but that's not what this is. What Amazon has released so far indicates the destruction of civilization on the west coast not just the NCR as a political unit. And that I cannot believe.

The new post post apocalyptic civilizations were always more interesting than the rubble. Bethesda was always too focused on the post apocalyptic side of things which only becomes more nonsensical the further into the future things go. It's already been 200 years and people in their games still act like the bombs just fell. The TV show appears to be going down the same line of thinking.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Do you actually expect Amazon and Bethesda to pull this off in way that respects the lore instead of retconing everything? Because I sure don't.
I don't think Bethesda has any people writing the story instead it's the director of West world and they've played Fallout

I can't say I fully expect them to a good job but I'm gonna give it a chance because unlike the other screw ups the writers didn't actually know the source material.



It's been clear since they included the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 76 that Bethesda don't respect the lore in the slightest. And yes, I know they came up with a bullshit explanation to include them but it was still bullshit. A lazy hand wave to justify whatever they wanted to do. I expect similar for how they destroy the NCR.
I get people don't like retcons but I personally don't find them to be such a big deal, the ones that bothered me were not the adding new things that were not suggested to be previously possible.

But the true retcons like making Jet a Pre-War drug do annoy me a bit.
The NCR in New Vegas had problems but it was not a civilization on the verge of collapse. In decline perhaps but not on the verge of disintegrating. I could very well believe that the NCR as a nation could collapse into several smaller states, but that's not what this is.
We technically don't know that yet, I'll get back to you after release. Staying positive here 😉


What Amazon has released so far indicates the destruction of civilization on the west coast not just the NCR as a political unit. And that I cannot believe.
Ehhhh not necessarily, there's just not enough information to base that off of.

The NCR related scenes only get two scenes, one with a flag fighting the Brotherhood and a Pre-War Shady Sands library sign.


I do think it's implied the NCR fell from grace considering they're still fighting the Brotherhood, although not sure if it was a total collapse.
 
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TyrantTriumphant

Well-known member
Please by all means list every indication from a two minute trailer
Very well. And I'm judging from all the promotional materials they've released so far, not just that trailer. To start, it shows Shady Sands, the capitol of the NCR as a bombed out ruin. We can definitely say that civilization is gone in that area. And if a nation's capitol city devolves into a wasteland that bodes poorly for the rest of the country.

Next many of the scenes shown so far are supposed to take place around Los Angeles. As I have mentioned, the Boneyard is one of the NCR's largest and most important cities. Many of their critical facilities are located their. The level of ruin and depopulation shown so far cannot exist in that area without total societal breakdown. Even an NCR in decline or breaking up would not cause such destruction.

The shots they have shown of NCR soldiers lack any of the standardization of uniforms, arms, or training of New Vegas. They are just generic post-apocalypse people. So clearly their military industrial complex is gone. Which makes sense as it was based in the Boneyard which is now a wasteland for some reason.

There is also the apparent widespread presence of the Brotherhood of Steel on the West coast. Remember that the Brotherhood was mostly defeated by the NCR as of New Vegas. The only way the Brotherhood could be running around so openly in enemy territory is if the NCR has been mostly destroyed. I doubt even a splinter state of the NCR would permit Brotherhood forces inside their territory without a fight.

We have also seen a sign on the front of a story saying "We trade only caps" This indicates that NCR currency is now worthless. While in New Vegas caps were weaker than the NCR dollar this is mostly because it is on the frontier. NCR dollars were still primarily used back in their core territories. While this particular example could just indicate the collapse of the government rather than civilization itself, I believe it still helps my point.

Next we have the general tone of the trailers. One of the main things they are pushing is "Naive girl enters savage wasteland." They show bandits, giant monsters and settlements that look like total shit. The problem is that in the geographical area in which this show is set all of those things have been pushed back. The wasteland has receded and civilization has replaced it. For the protagonist to be traveling in a wasteland, in a place that was once civilized indicated that civilization is gone and is now a wasteland.

I believe that these things all taken together form a firm basis for my argument.
 
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ThatZenoGuy

Zealous Evolutionary Nano Organism
Comrade
I never got the impression in FO1 that 'Shady Sands' was a pre-war location, there's absolutely no remnants of pre-war buildings/structures there. Just desert. So the new settlers named it...Shady Sands?

This is like a new company buying Star Wars in 10 years and explaining the Death Star is so-named because it required the death of a star to build it or something. When the more reasonable thing is that the Emperor has a hardon for scary names so he called it something scary.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Very well. And I'm judging from all the promotional materials they've released so far, not just that trailer. To start, it shows Shady Sands, the capitol of the NCR as a bombed out ruin. We can definitely say that civilization is gone in that area. And if a nation's capitol city devolves into a wasteland that bodes poorly for the rest of the country.
It's not Post War Shady Sands it says Shady Sands library and a massive hole created from a nuke.

This definitely isn't a basis for it, completely baseless unless we're assuming they're retconning all of Shady Sands.


Next many of the scenes shown so far are supposed to take place around Los Angeles. As I have mentioned, the Boneyard is one of the NCR's largest and most important cities. Many of their critical facilities are located their.
The Bone Yard is a massive remains of Pre-War LA.

The NCR took over the Boneyard as a state in 2189, show takes place in 2296. It's 107 years it sounds like a lot but IRL LA (Which would be in theory much less denser than 2077's LA) took decades to grow to a major city and this was with substantial resources from the United States, it's realistic that there would still be huge swaths of territory in the Bone Yard that hasn't been dismantled and salvaged.

They'd be basically starting over from scratch as a Nation.
The level of ruin and depopulation shown so far cannot exist in that area without total societal breakdown.
As long as it was the Bone Yard area yes it can.
Even an NCR in decline or breaking up would not cause such destruction.
The destruction is preexisting the place got nuked.
The shots they have shown of NCR soldiers lack any of the standardization of uniforms, arms, or training of New Vegas.
A two second clip isn't enough to make that determination tbh. They could have been deserters or poor quality troops, not enough context to the scene.

They are just generic post-apocalypse people. So clearly their military industrial complex is gone. Which makes sense as it was based in the Boneyard which is now a wasteland for some reason.
Vast chucks of the Bone Yard WAS a wasteland

Fallout 2 Manual says this


The city of Los Angeles must have been the largest in the world before the War. The L.A. Boneyard stretched forever, the skeletons of buildings lying under the hot sun. Not even the wind entered this dead city.
"​





Fallout 2 technically takes place in 2241 so
52 years AFTER it became a state
There was still skeletons of buildings that "stretched forever"
I think the NCR industrialization is a bit exaggerated, they wouldn't have cleared all of the Bone Yard or significant chunks of it, they didn't even after 52 years of claiming it as a state.

NCR per that quote would have had 55 years to clear a significant chunk of the Bone Yard for your claim to be accurate.

There is also the apparent widespread presence of the Brotherhood of Steel on the West coast. Remember that the Brotherhood was mostly defeated by the NCR as of New Vegas. The only way the Brotherhood could be running around so openly in enemy territory is if the NCR has been mostly destroyed. I doubt even a splinter state of the NCR would permit Brotherhood forces inside their territory without a fight.
Or they could be the Mid Western Branch or the East Coast returning 🤷

We don't know the context but they're using T-60 power armor so it's possible, the only ones with Blimps we know of are the East Coast and potentially Mid-West Brotherhood, T-60 was also more common in the East.
We have also seen a sign on the front of a story saying "We trade only caps" This indicates that NCR currency is now worthless. While in New Vegas caps were weaker than the NCR dollar this is mostly because it is on the frontier. NCR dollars were still primarily used back in their core territories. While this particular example could just indicate the collapse of the government rather than civilization itself, I believe it still helps my point.
That doesn't indicate the NCR currency became useless, you do know in Vegas some NCR Troopers are paid in caps right?

Having a preference for which currency you accept in a random ass store is like saying credit cards in the US have no value because a store only accepts cash. It's a ridiculous stretch


Next we have the general tone of the trailers. One of the main things they are pushing is "Naive girl enters savage wasteland."
A lot of Fallout has hostile wilde life, literal tutorial of New Vegas has Fire Geko horde attacking you.

They show bandits, giant monsters and settlements that look like total shit.
Totally not being biased or subjective

The problem is that in the geographical area in which this show is set all of those things have been pushed back. The wasteland has receded and civilization has replaced it. For the protagonist to be traveling in a wasteland, in a place that was once civilized indicated that civilization and is now a wasteland.
Ooorr oooor she's traveling through the ruins of the old world, remember the NCR hadn't completely rebuilt the entire world they build a chain of cities from scratch the old shit is still there.


I believe that these things all taken together form a firm basis for my argument.
I think most of it relies on assumption and personal bias. The only valid I point I feel is the NCR equipment which looks too messed up and dirty implying their home territory army is in a state of disarray.
 

TyrantTriumphant

Well-known member
It's not Post War Shady Sands it says Shady Sands library and a massive hole created from a nuke.

This definitely isn't a basis for it, completely baseless unless we're assuming they're retconning all of Shady Sands.
My guess is the writers either forgot or didn't care that Shady Sands was newly built and retconed it to be located near pre-war ruins. Bethesda has retconed all sorts of things before so it wouldn't be out of character. And yes I know they aren't making it directly but they are still heavily involved.

The Bone Yard is a massive remains of Pre-War LA.

The NCR took over the Boneyard as a state in 2189, show takes place in 2296. It's 107 years it sounds like a lot but IRL LA (Which would be in theory much less denser than 2077's LA) took decades to grow to a major city and this was with substantial resources from the United States, it's realistic that there would still be huge swaths of territory in the Bone Yard that hasn't been dismantled and salvaged.

They'd be basically starting over from scratch as a Nation.
While the NCR would not be able settle every bit of the area they should still be able to project power in the area surrounding one of their largest cities because that is what functional governments do. I could well believe that there are areas further from settlements that still have dangerous wildlife or places that have a crime problem. But that's not what we see. It is simply not possible to have a large strategic city nearby without any sign of real civilization. And yet we do.

Or they could be the Mid Western Branch or the East Coast returning 🤷

We don't know the context but they're using T-60 power armor so it's possible, the only ones with Blimps we know of are the East Coast and potentially Mid-West Brotherhood, T-60 was also more common in the East.
They are obviously from the East Coast Brotherhood. The flag they fly is the Eastern BoS flag from Fallout 3. But that doesn't change the fact that the NCR wouldn't permit them to run around in their territory if they were a functional state.

That doesn't indicate the NCR currency became useless, you do know in Vegas some NCR Troopers are paid in caps right?

Having a preference for which currency you accept in a random ass store is like saying credit cards in the US have no value because a store only accepts cash. It's a ridiculous stretch
New Vegas is a frontier that for the most part isn't legally part of the NCR. This is supposed to be in the NCR's core territory. It's ridiculous for anyone there not to accept their own nation's currency. It would be like some random ass store in the USA refusing US dollars because they only accept Euros.

A lot of Fallout has hostile wilde life, literal tutorial of New Vegas has Fire Geko horde attacking you.
Yes, and that is on the frontier where these sorts of dangers have not yet been pushed out. While there should some remote areas that have these sorts of things, the inhabited parts of it should not much for the same reason we don't see random mountain lions and bears wandering through DC or NYC. Because civilized communities don't permit that shit.

Not that it really matters. The advertising for the show has been pushing it as a savage wasteland experience. In an area that's mostly civilized. This means that either they have chosen to only advertise parts of the show that take place in wild areas, which would be a very strange marketing decision, or that civilization is mostly gone.

Totally not being biased or subjective
I am not talking about whether it is aesthetically pleasing or not. What I mean is that the only settlement we see is a decrepit shantytown overrun by bandits. All they show are ruins, shacks, and wasteland. Again, I can easily believe that some parts of the NCR are like this. But not all of it or even most of it.

The whole point of trailers and promotional materials is to give an idea of what to expect from a product. If that is all they show is ruin and squalor than that is probably featured heavily if not exclusively in their show.

A two second clip isn't enough to make that determination tbh. They could have been deserters or poor quality troops, not enough context to the scene.
They are obviously not deserters since they are waving the NCR flag and fighting the Brotherhood. And I have a hard time believing that they would have such poor quality troops in their core territories, especially near the Boneyard where they make most of their weapons and armor.

Ooorr oooor she's traveling through the ruins of the old world, remember the NCR hadn't completely rebuilt the entire world they build a chain of cities from scratch the old shit is still there.
Then why is that all they show? And why would the protagonist bother at all? The NCR hasn't rebuilt everything but they have looted anything worthwhile. I guess she could looking for something specific and be bouncing between isolated pre-war ruins to find it but it seems like a stretch.

But anyway the protagonist is shown freaking out about how dangerous things are outside of the vault and a point is repeatedly made of how harsh the world is. If there was still was a functional network of cities than it wouldn't be nearly as bad, if only because you could get fresh supplies and medical treatment between excursions.

I think most of it relies on assumption and personal bias. The only valid I point I feel is the NCR equipment which looks too messed up and dirty implying their home territory army is in a state of disarray.
I can only make guesses based on what Amazon has released so far. And thus far they have shown plenty of shots of desolation and lawlessness and none of functional civilization.

If the NCR is still intact and if civilization still functions on the west coast then why has Amazon chosen to market this show in the way they have?
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
My guess is the writers either forgot or didn't care that Shady Sands was newly built and retconed it to be located near pre-war ruins. Bethesda has retconed all sorts of things before so it wouldn't be out of character. And yes I know they aren't making it directly but they are still heavily involved.


While the NCR would not be able settle every bit of the area they should still be able to project power in the area surrounding one of their largest cities because that is what functional governments do. I could well believe that there are areas further from settlements that still have dangerous wildlife or places that have a crime problem. But that's not what we see. It is simply not possible to have a large strategic city nearby without any sign of real civilization. And yet we do.


They are obviously from the East Coast Brotherhood. The flag they fly is the Eastern BoS flag from Fallout 3. But that doesn't change the fact that the NCR wouldn't permit them to run around in their territory if they were a functional state.


New Vegas is a frontier that for the most part isn't legally part of the NCR. This is supposed to be in the NCR's core territory. It's ridiculous for anyone there not to accept their own nation's currency. It would be like some random ass store in the USA refusing US dollars because they only accept Euros.


Yes, and that is on the frontier where these sorts of dangers have not yet been pushed out. While there should some remote areas that have these sorts of things, the inhabited parts of it should not much for the same reason we don't see random mountain lions and bears wandering through DC or NYC. Because civilized communities don't permit that shit.

Not that it really matters. The advertising for the show has been pushing it as a savage wasteland experience. In an area that's mostly civilized. This means that either they have chosen to only advertise parts of the show that take place in wild areas, which would be a very strange marketing decision, or that civilization is mostly gone.


I am not talking about whether it is aesthetically pleasing or not. What I mean is that the only settlement we see is a decrepit shantytown overrun by bandits. All they show are ruins, shacks, and wasteland. Again, I can easily believe that some parts of the NCR are like this. But not all of it or even most of it.

The whole point of trailers and promotional materials is to give an idea of what to expect from a product. If that is all they show is ruin and squalor than that is probably featured heavily if not exclusively in their show.


They are obviously not deserters since they are waving the NCR flag and fighting the Brotherhood. And I have a hard time believing that they would have such poor quality troops in their core territories, especially near the Boneyard where they make most of their weapons and armor.


Then why is that all they show? And why would the protagonist bother at all? The NCR hasn't rebuilt everything but they have looted anything worthwhile. I guess she could looking for something specific and be bouncing between isolated pre-war ruins to find it but it seems like a stretch.

But anyway the protagonist is shown freaking out about how dangerous things are outside of the vault and a point is repeatedly made of how harsh the world is. If there was still was a functional network of cities than it wouldn't be nearly as bad, if only because you could get fresh supplies and medical treatment between excursions.


I can only make guesses based on what Amazon has released so far. And thus far they have shown plenty of shots of desolation and lawlessness and none of functional civilization.

If the NCR is still intact and if civilization still functions on the west coast then why has Amazon chosen to market this show in the way they have?
Hmm if most of your basis is why they're marketing in such a way you need to realize that the show is supposed to keep the Fallout thematic.


If all you saw was a Prosperous NCR free of danger from wildlife and other factions what's the point of the story? You're asking for a NCR documentary 🤷 the story is supposed to be about a Vault Dweller trying to survive not about the NCR so the trailer is going to be marketed towards the Protagonist and Co Protagonists not the NCR because the plot is not revolving around the NCR.

For all we know Lucy could have exited the Vault (which we don't know where exactly is located) and went the opposite direction of where the NCR cities were settled, California is a BIG place so NCR population would at most be a few million spread out over their territories/settlements/vast territory.

Just recall as big as the NCR is it's still only rocking the population of two to three major cities
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If she starts in the Bone Yard without any sense of direction she could very well end up heading South which we know by the events of New Vegas isn't as secure as the other territory of the NCR.


Veteran Rangers in New Vegas were still hunting "Ghosts" in Baja implying it's not a fully explored not secured territory and would give reason to show all the dangerous wild life and shit since I doubt that the NCR secured Baja if they ended up re deploying their forces to the New Vegas front.


So there's a chance they didn't fuck everything up 🤷
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
Well the MC must be doing a real walkabout if she goes from LA to Shady Sands. It's what 250 miles between the two of them?
She's literally naive like they sell her that way lmafo.

What'd you expect, Courier 2.0?
She's likely the weakest FO Protagonist to date

Edit: Also I'm not buying it being the Post War Shady Sands until confirmed 😂
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
So a low INT, high CHA+LUC build?
Well yeah didn't you see the two minute clip?

She gets saved by the BOS Paladin and the trailer shows later on Lucy getting spared by the same Ghoul (Who was going to kill her before) when he catches her by herself.

She's running a Luck and Charisma build with Low INT. (But not too low more like a 4 INT)
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
So a low INT, high CHA+LUC build?

I've seen that before...


Should be a good playthrough.
 

Scooby Doo

Well-known member
I've seen that before...


Should be a good playthrough.
Don't bring that she devil into this discussion puh leaze 😤
 

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