This is spun off from a discussion I was having with user @ATP in the "What religion do you profess?" poll thread. ATP thought I should "remove" Protestantism (and Islam). He's kind of going further than just saying they are false belief systems, but that you can use "logic" to show that it is "impossible" for them to "exist". It's a little hard to follow, but near as I can tell his argument is this: Protestantism claims to be the Church of Jesus Christ. Jesus started the Church in 33 AD when he ascended to heaven. Protestantism started in 1517. Jesus didn't start Protestantism, ergo Protestantism simply cannot be the Church of Jesus Christ.
My response to that argument is first to define what the Church of Jesus Christ even is. Biblically speaking, there is one Church (big "C") of Jesus Christ, which is made of all people who profess to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible. A church (little "c") is a community of people who preach a set of beliefs and practices. If a given church preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible, it is a valid part of the greater Church of Jesus Christ.
The Protestant movement may have started in the 16th century, but Protestants have always argued that they preach the Gospel as taught in the Bible. They also often argue that the Roman Catholic church has replaced the Biblical Gospel with man made traditions. If those claims are true, and my definition of the Church of Jesus Christ is true, then Protestantism is part of the true Church of Jesus Christ and Roman Catholicism is not.
I challenge @ATP to provide a different definition of the Church of Jesus Christ, and to show why his definition must be true. Because if my definition simply could be true, then there is nothing illogical about operating from that definition and believing Protestantism to be the true Church of Jesus Christ.
Now, to specifically respond to his last post in the thread:
1. Jesus never said that he would build the church on Peter specifically. And he certainly never said he would build it on a priestly position that Peter started and passed on to others in Rome.
2. Actually, no, I don't believe the church in 147 AD was the Roman Catholic church as we know it today. The church in 147 preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible. The Roman Catholic church has replaced the Biblical Gospel with man-made traditions.
3. If you're talking about the Church of Jesus Christ, yes, it has existed from 33 AD to today. Protestantism is part of the Church of Jesus Christ insofar as it preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible.
My response to that argument is first to define what the Church of Jesus Christ even is. Biblically speaking, there is one Church (big "C") of Jesus Christ, which is made of all people who profess to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible. A church (little "c") is a community of people who preach a set of beliefs and practices. If a given church preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible, it is a valid part of the greater Church of Jesus Christ.
The Protestant movement may have started in the 16th century, but Protestants have always argued that they preach the Gospel as taught in the Bible. They also often argue that the Roman Catholic church has replaced the Biblical Gospel with man made traditions. If those claims are true, and my definition of the Church of Jesus Christ is true, then Protestantism is part of the true Church of Jesus Christ and Roman Catholicism is not.
I challenge @ATP to provide a different definition of the Church of Jesus Christ, and to show why his definition must be true. Because if my definition simply could be true, then there is nothing illogical about operating from that definition and believing Protestantism to be the true Church of Jesus Christ.
Now, to specifically respond to his last post in the thread:
Hmmm...let see:
1.So,20.000 + protestant churches are one Jesus church-REALLY? then why Jesus said that he would built one church on Peter,not 20.000+ ?
2.That church which existed in 147AD was catholic church.So,catholic church was Jesus church in 147AD,but now it is 20.000+ protestant sects ? REALLY ?
3.I proved nothing - logic did it.Becouse simple logic is enough to knew,that id church was made in 33AD,then it must existed from 33AD to 2021AD.
None of protestant churches did so.
1. Jesus never said that he would build the church on Peter specifically. And he certainly never said he would build it on a priestly position that Peter started and passed on to others in Rome.
2. Actually, no, I don't believe the church in 147 AD was the Roman Catholic church as we know it today. The church in 147 preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible. The Roman Catholic church has replaced the Biblical Gospel with man-made traditions.
3. If you're talking about the Church of Jesus Christ, yes, it has existed from 33 AD to today. Protestantism is part of the Church of Jesus Christ insofar as it preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible.
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