You’re made leader of the USSR in 1933,what changes will you do to the union?

[Buba]

Why do people act like such cucks and say things like they will restore the Romanovs.

This board might have an above average incidence of monarchists.
If ISOTed into Stalin, as per the OP, I'd give Restoration a thought (i.e. pull a Franco) as in my opinion it might be benefitial to the country in the long term. Skipping the Samodzerzhave (Autocrator) part, naturally. However, self-preservation comes first ...
I agree on Nicholas II being a First Class Clown Act, an absolute disaster for Russia.

 

[King Arts]

This board might have an above average incidence of monarchists.
If ISOTed into Stalin, as per the OP, I'd give Restoration a thought (i.e. pull a Franco) as in my opinion it might be benefitial to the country in the long term. Skipping the Samodzerzhave (Autocrator) part, naturally. However, self-preservation comes first ...
I agree on Nicholas II being a First Class Clown Act, an absolute disaster for Russia.

Franco made a mistake by putting the king in power. As soon as Franco died the king instituted democracy. Franco should have pulled a Napoleon and declare himself king, and put his own son on the throne and start a new dynasty.

 

[Buba]

Franco made a mistake by putting the king in power. As soon as Franco died the king instituted democracy. Franco should have pulled a Napoleon and declare himself king, and put his own son on the throne and start a new dynasty.

Putting the oathbreaker on the throne may be constructed as having worked, even if not the way the Good General intended. It gave Spain stability and spared the country the "elect the Head of State circus" some other European countries undergo every 4-5 years.
Franco starting a new dynasty could had brought about instability and more outlay on suppresion of dissent. Had he smelt out Juan Carlos for the rat he turned out to be, then IMO he should had used a Napolitan or Parmese Borbon.
We will never know, of course ...

 

[King Arts]

Putting the oathbreaker on the throne may be constructed as having worked, even if not the way the Good General intended. It gave Spain stability and spared the country the "elect the Head of State circus" some other European countries undergo every 4-5 years.
Franco starting a new dynasty could had brought about instability and more outlay on suppresion of dissent. Had he smelt out Juan Carlos for the rat he turned out to be, then IMO he should had used a Napolitan or Parmese Borbon.
We will never know, of course ...

Spain is a democracy now so it does have the crazy elections. Yes starting a new dynasty will lead to purges and bloodshed but it’s for the greater good against the disloyal. These same things happen at the start of every dynasty but modern monarchists are just the same as modern democrats/republicans they forget that the tree of liberty or power must be watered with blood.

 

[stevep]

Pretty much in a bind I hate Extremism as a whole. I hate Communist, who ruin their country, I hate Fascist, who ruin a countries unity, I hate Fanatics, as all religions are alright, as long one doesn't try to kill another (one such example is the Modern Terrorist Caliphate's and their Islamic doctrines) and most importantly, I hate people who jump to conclusions. I haven't killed anyone, and pray I don't have to, but, there are two problems with this world. Evil and Good.

We've seen Evil from the likes of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Genghis Khan, and Oliver Cromwell, each were leaders of their political parties, and each did horrid things. Hitler killed the Jews, Stalin starved his people and slaughtered those who opposed him, Cromwell massacred Catholics just because he could and Genghis Khan returned insults with piles of skulls.

On the other hand, we have the side of Good, Charlemagne, George Washington, General Patton and many others! But do you know what both of these sides did? They killed many innocent people. Not everyone who followed Hitler wanted to enslave europe, not every person who followed Stalin wanted millions to die.

What I'm saying here is, there isn't an 'Evil' political party, more of how it's used, and if it's effective. Fascism is good for a Militarily one ethnicity country, Monarchism is good for a group of people who want an educated and prepared leader, Communism is good for controlling your nation, if food is not a problem, and Democracy is good for those who have too many groups of people for just one man to cater too.

From what has been proven by history, all systems of govt. work. It's simply how competent you are, and how moderate your nation is. Most of the Communist I've met have been critically obese people who want others to do the work while they sit on their ass have food shoveled into their mouths. Thus I hate them. I don't hate all communist, I think that Vietnam's communist party was quite alright, and while yeah, they did torture people, their struggle was legitimate.

When I said to shove them out to see, I'm talking about New Communism, not the Communist that were actually justified. Which, when you actually look at it, was a VERY short list. for instance, China's communist were justified, both Imperial govt and Democratic govt had failed the people spectacularly. However, it became quite apparent that the people in charge under communism didn't know shit either. They were justified, and fought for the people! but when those in power got drunk off said power, and with nothing in line to check them? A once legitimate effort to help the people of China, became another shackle.

Pretty much what I am saying is, a communist nation who doesn't go ape-shit dictator, or try to Industrialize too fast is a decent-able one. Communism is perfect for Agrarianism, not Industrialism. Which is my point of what I said.

That's a more balanced view that what you were suggesting earlier. Plus I think I telescoped together your comment and that from Atarlost where he found attractive Doomsoughts idea of screwing over Russia - and other parts of the Soviet empire - killing millions in the process simply to try and discredit 'socialism'. For that I apologize.

 

[Atarlost]

That's a more balanced view that what you were suggesting earlier. Plus I think I telescoped together your comment and that from Atarlost where he found attractive Doomsoughts idea of screwing over Russia - and other parts of the Soviet empire - killing millions in the process simply to try and discredit 'socialism'. For that I apologize.

Socialism has killed a lot more people outside Russia after 1933 than Doomsought can screw over inside Russia. Leave off the deliberate nuclear accident and his deliberate mess might be less than the dogs breakfast every other 20th century power made of decolonization. Russia does not have the traditions to sustain a federalist democracy once the isekai 4x mind control powers wear off and if the OP proposed immortality I missed it. The proof is in the Putin. And then Russia is right back where it started as a tyrannical empire threatening the balance of power in Europe or disintegrating into post-colonial states with all the bloodshed that entails

If socialism is turned back by a counterrevolutionary takeover in Russia it will spring up somewhere else the isekai'd individual doesn't have 4x game mind control powers. Russia's salvation in these proposals is France's damnation or Britain's or America's. Russia's damnation might be China's salvation and Cambodia's and Venuzuela's and Poland's and Vietnam's and all the baltic and balkan states and half of Korea's. And it still doesn't save Russia, just kicks the can down the road a generation.

And socialism's legacy isn't spent. The entire modern left comes out of socialist efforts to sabotage and discredit western civilization so that Russia could win the cold war and the removal of the USSR didn't remove its mostly unwitting agents. They must be encouraged to expose themselves as traitors before they adopt Gramscian strategy.

 

[stevep]

Socialism has killed a lot more people outside Russia after 1933 than Doomsought can screw over inside Russia. Leave off the deliberate nuclear accident and his deliberate mess might be less than the dogs breakfast every other 20th century power made of decolonization. Russia does not have the traditions to sustain a federalist democracy once the isekai 4x mind control powers wear off and if the OP proposed immortality I missed it. The proof is in the Putin. And then Russia is right back where it started as a tyrannical empire threatening the balance of power in Europe or disintegrating into post-colonial states with all the bloodshed that entails

If socialism is turned back by a counterrevolutionary takeover in Russia it will spring up somewhere else the isekai'd individual doesn't have 4x game mind control powers. Russia's salvation in these proposals is France's damnation or Britain's or America's. Russia's damnation might be China's salvation and Cambodia's and Venuzuela's and Poland's and Vietnam's and all the baltic and balkan states and half of Korea's. And it still doesn't save Russia, just kicks the can down the road a generation.

And socialism's legacy isn't spent. The entire modern left comes out of socialist efforts to sabotage and discredit western civilization so that Russia could win the cold war and the removal of the USSR didn't remove its mostly unwitting agents. They must be encouraged to expose themselves as traitors before they adopt Gramscian strategy.

You need to get in touch with reality. Also distinguish between socialism and communism, as no communist state has ever been socialist. Although possibly the Czechs in 1968 might have managed to make the transition if such a move hadn't terrified Moscow that much.

The entire modern left doesn't come out of socialism although the more democratic forms of socialism have played a major role in the centre left across much of the developed world. However there are still many elements on the left that don't have any origins in either socialism or communism. Traditional liberalism in assorted forms for instance which long pre-date Marx let along the egotistical delusions of Lenin and the other monsters that followed him.

Putin is an example but not a proof. Yes Russia lacked any significant history of democracy in 1917 say before Lenin suppressed the revolution or 1990 after the collapse of the Soviet empire. However every country did before it started establishing such. Germany for instance, for all the history of liberal ideas there only had limited democratic rights between 1871 and 1945 but has managed to establish a democratic society since. Ditto with Japan. No people are inevitably doomed to be perpetually cursed with thuggish autocratic rule. It would be more difficult with a country such as Russia but its not impossible and with some assistance from the west and encouragement you might have seen democracy survive there rather than be plunged into a brutal right wing dictatorship as happened. At the very least a move to establish such traditions and ideas would have established deeper roots for later efforts even if they failed in the 1930s in the proposed scenario. Leaving aside the potentially far worse disaster that removing Russia as a player in the world for a decade or two in that period would have been.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Personally, I would rework collectivization into Cooperation, i.e. turn the various collectives into competing co-ops. Sure the State would have seats on the board of these co-ops, but a controlling interest. In addition, set up a base/bonus quota system (i.e. X is the basic production, and bonuses grow in tiers based on how much that base quota is exceeded) instead of the original quotas. Also, rehire the experts that were purged, we're going to need them. Also, set up a well-paid OSHA to make sure any Guilded Age BS doesn't happen.

Start small business initiatives to help generate some tax revenue.

Rework the gulags, largely so I can put Stalin's hardliners that can't have a bullet into their skull as far away as possible. Russia has this tendency to need to be dragged in a direction kicking and screaming and not having places that are as far from the population centers as possible would make this process even harder.

Try to limit the shitshow that is the famines. Having the experts help out in this regard would be wonderful.

Start standardizing the military and build general staffs to refine the military (i.e. find weaknesses in material, training, and doctrine, fix said weaknesses, see if new weaknesses show up, repeat).

That would be the start of it...

 

[Morphic Tide]

Also, rehire the experts that were purged, we're going to need them.

This is making the likely mistaken assumption said experts were purged non-lethally. However, importing a few foreign experts to train local talent, like Japan did, should be accomplished trivially with the prevalence of open and unironic support of socialism in academia throughout the world.

 

[Aaron Fox]

This is making the likely mistaken assumption said experts were purged non-lethally. However, importing a few foreign experts to train local talent, like Japan did, should be accomplished trivially with the prevalence of open and unironic support of socialism in academia throughout the world.

I was thinking that only some got the bullet (because during WW2 Stalin rehired all the purged officers that weren't dead) while the rest were in gulags.

 

[ATP]

I was thinking that only some got the bullet (because during WW2 Stalin rehired all the purged officers that weren't dead) while the rest were in gulags.

30% of those send to Gulags died there - unless it was Magadan.95% died there/normal prisoners,cryminals working for NKWD mostly survived/
And famine was possible only becouse soviets destroyed farmers.Gave them land again,and there would be no famine.

 

[stevep]

Personally, I would rework collectivization into Cooperation, i.e. turn the various collectives into competing co-ops. Sure the State would have seats on the board of these co-ops, but a controlling interest. In addition, set up a base/bonus quota system (i.e. X is the basic production, and bonuses grow in tiers based on how much that base quota is exceeded) instead of the original quotas. Also, rehire the experts that were purged, we're going to need them. Also, set up a well-paid OSHA to make sure any Guilded Age BS doesn't happen.

Start small business initiatives to help generate some tax revenue.

Rework the gulags, largely so I can put Stalin's hardliners that can't have a bullet into their skull as far away as possible. Russia has this tendency to need to be dragged in a direction kicking and screaming and not having places that are as far from the population centers as possible would make this process even harder.

Try to limit the shitshow that is the famines. Having the experts help out in this regard would be wonderful.

Start standardizing the military and build general staffs to refine the military (i.e. find weaknesses in material, training, and doctrine, fix said weaknesses, see if new weaknesses show up, repeat).

That would be the start of it...

Like the general idea but think the famines were over by 1933. However definitely giving farmers larger personal plots and incentives to increase production - as well as greatly improving their loyalty to the government. Ditto with some incentives in business although you would have to watch for widespread corruption in the bureaucracy and business. [Often to meet difficult production targets it was easier - and hence far, far safer - to doctor the figures rather than actually increasing output.

With the military purges their largely still to come. Of course we don't know for sure how many of the officers purged were that much better than those left behind but the purges did create a deepen state of fear that crippled initiative. Do recall reading of one leading officer who OTL was purged - sent to the gulag and tortured - pulled out to command forces in 1941 when the shit hit the fan - then in 45/46 told 'time to go back to prison for the rest of your sentence.

I think the big problem is finding a system where you retain the necessary control without terror and bitter infighting being used to prevent any group feeling strong enough that they might be tempted to replace you. Especially when you do anything, let alone a hell of a lot to reduce the dominance of the party.

Steve

 

[Navarro]

Hm, we are one year from Hitler's assension. Should a risky direct move be made against him right away, or is that too risky with the outcome too uncertain?

It says in 1933, so we're less than a month away from it. Far less time to intervene. And Germany is, as you noted, a very unstable country at this point in time.

Certainly wouldn't want hitlers removal to make way for a social communist power in Europe. How central histler himself is a big unknown to me right now, and who replaces him.

Plus, well, a failed assassination attempt of a foreign leader that prominent has its own downsides.

Best option to try and deal with Hitler early is to lend support to anti-Nazi elements in the German army who would have couped him OTL if Chamberlain hadn't been such a spineless wimp over the Sudetenland. I'd prepare for war anyway in case that fails.

Franco made a mistake by putting the king in power. As soon as Franco died the king instituted democracy. Franco should have pulled a Napoleon and declare himself king, and put his own son on the throne and start a new dynasty.

Declaring yourself a monarch no longer brought cred from the Great Powers by the 20th century (see Jean-Bedel Bokassa's "Central African Empire"), and would not lead to partisans of any existing monarchal line (esp. the Russian whites, who in this scenario are your enemies already) seeing you as anything other than a dirty pretender. So there's no reason to do it in this instance.

 

[ATP]

It says in 1933, so we're less than a month away from it. Far less time to intervene. And Germany is, as you noted, a very unstable country at this point in time.



Best option to try and deal with Hitler early is to lend support to anti-Nazi elements in the German army who would have couped him OTL if Chamberlain hadn't been such a spineless wimp over the Sudetenland. I'd prepare for war anyway in case that fails.



Declaring yourself a monarch no longer brought cred from the Great Powers by the 20th century (see Jean-Bedel Bokassa's "Central African Empire"), and would not lead to partisans of any existing monarchal line (esp. the Russian whites, who in this scenario are your enemies already) seeing you as anything other than a dirty pretender. So there's no reason to do it in this instance.

1.Hitler in 1936 planned to schoot himsef if France reacted to remilitarization.Made deal with Poland/we were ruled by idiots with big ego,so just tell how great they are/ and send one Army to take Berlin.
After that - made Bavaria and Saxony free states,and occupy Prussia till they pay all war debts.German problem solved.

2.No deals with german Army - they wanted intact Germany,which would meant another WW in next generation.

3.Yes,do not made yourself tsar,take some Romanow - but after purging all real commies ,creating strong army and economy,and making kind of russian UE in the East.With Bawaria and Saxony as members.
Poland - just stroke ego of our idiot leaders,and they would join,too.

 

[WolfBear]

Tell the German Communists to ally with the SPD in order to form a broad German governing coalition in early 1933 in order to block Hitler's rise to power. Also, not purge my military in the late 1930s. And continue aggressively building the Stalin Line rather than focusing on the Molotov Line. And not meddle in military decisions but allow my generals to do their jobs by themselves, with the exception of telling my generals to be on full military alert for the entirety of 1941. And deporting as many Soviet Jews to the interior of the Soviet Union before the start of Operation Barbarossa in order to save their skins from the Nazis would probably be a good idea.

Also, warn the French about the danger of a Nazi attack through the Ardennes, though I unfortunately strongly doubt that the French are actually going to listen to me in regards to this.

And avoid Lysenkoism and also try my hardest to avoid the 1930s famines. Avoiding forced collectivization might help if it won't weaken the Soviet Union's military strength later on.