Xenomorphs as part of an ecology

[Shipmaster Sane]

I don't see any material difference but whatever it's not that important. Hmm what would you org a queens cr at for 3.5? I'm saying cr19ish maybe?

I would probably compare and contrast it to the Siege Beetle (CR16, MM5), who's "as wide as a barn and longer still" (Gargantuan) so considerably more massive than the Queen, sprays fluids all over that blind people, has a paralyzing bite, is frighteningly quick for its size, can fly, is resistant to cold and fire, immune to electric and sonic attacks, has damage reduction.

You could argue, perhaps, the Queen has the DR and charge attack, and has the advantage of Acid blood, but it probably isn't stronger or more durable (if not much less strong, if I'm remembering it's much smaller), and lacks flight, immunities (except presumably to acid), and the special "status" attacks.



Perhaps it's more comparable to the Remorhaz? A "Huge sized" hard shelled monster that destroys weapons that hit it. The Remorhaz is considered "lopsided" in terms of CR at 7, it's extremely difficult to run a Remorhaz encounter that doesn't either instantly kill a player or two, or end with the Remorhaz dead from one spell. It's considered one of the worst monsters, mechanically, in DnD period, top three even. I digress.


Take a Remorhaz, swap out "EX: Heat" with "EX: Acid Blood", Replace "EX: Swallow Whole" with some kind of extra damage effect on a successful grapple to represent the second mouth (Simplest way would be free bite attack damage wise). Give two claw attacks and a tail attack per round in addition to the bite attack, and you're done.

If we say the Xenomorphs are "vermin" and thus remove the Remorhaz' biggest achilles heel, add three attacks, take away swallow whole, take away burrow speed, add a "rend" or "constrict" style "free attack on grapple" ability...

CR 7-9, depending on how you want to calculate CR, very technically (CR7, like the Remz, it gains a lot but loses a lot, they're about the same threat level), or more based on play experience (CR 9 to represent the threat of losing weapons, this would be ignoring the Remz' CR, essentially arguing that it is too low).



So in short, I'd directly base it off the Remorhaz, and give it a technical CR of 7, and a personal CR of 9.

 

[Lanmandragon]

I would probably compare and contrast it to the Siege Beetle (CR16, MM5), who's "as wide as a barn and longer still" (Gargantuan) so considerably more massive than the Queen, sprays fluids all over that blind people, has a paralyzing bite, is frighteningly quick for its size, can fly, is resistant to cold and fire, immune to electric and sonic attacks, has damage reduction.

You could argue, perhaps, the Queen has the DR and charge attack, and has the advantage of Acid blood, but it probably isn't stronger or more durable (if not much less strong, if I'm remembering it's much smaller), and lacks flight, immunities (except presumably to acid), and the special "status" attacks.



Perhaps it's more comparable to the Remorhaz? A "Huge sized" hard shelled monster that destroys weapons that hit it. The Remorhaz is considered "lopsided" in terms of CR at 7, it's extremely difficult to run a Remorhaz encounter that doesn't either instantly kill a player or two, or end with the Remorhaz dead from one spell. It's considered one of the worst monsters, mechanically, in DnD period, top three even. I digress.


Take a Remorhaz, swap out "EX: Heat" with "EX: Acid Blood", Replace "EX: Swallow Whole" with some kind of extra damage effect on a successful grapple to represent the second mouth (Simplest way would be free bite attack damage wise). Give two claw attacks and a tail attack per round in addition to the bite attack, and you're done.

If we say the Xenomorphs are "vermin" and thus remove the Remorhaz' biggest achilles heel, add three attacks, take away swallow whole, take away burrow speed, add a "rend" or "constrict" style "free attack on grapple" ability...

CR 7-9, depending on how you want to calculate CR, very technically (CR7, like the Remz, it gains a lot but loses a lot, they're about the same threat level), or more based on play experience (CR 9 to represent the threat of losing weapons, this would be ignoring the Remz' CR, essentially arguing that it is too low).



So in short, I'd directly base it off the Remorhaz, and give it a technical CR of 7, and a personal CR of 9.

How would you stat a standard warrior xeno? The cr5 above or lower?

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

How would you stat a standard warrior xeno? The cr5 above or lower?

I've seen attempts to flavor it as a Template, but yeah I would probably aim for a CR4/5 monster, nominally a CR 1-4 with a +1/+2 CR due to Acid Blood being a bitch to deal with. Compare the Medium Scorpion (CR 1) Tiger (CR 4) and Medium Giant Ant Soldier (CR 2)
Depending on how I felt I'd take one of those and add the apropriate attacks where necessary, and Acid Blood.



A sneaky, easy way to do variations rather than a template would be to use Monstrous Scorpion stats, or, to get Xenomorphs a bit more beefy, use Monsterous scorpion stats of one size category higher, then add the adjustments needed. That way you'd have a CR3 base monster for the standard Medium sized Xeno, and a CR 7 base monster for a Large Xeno, probably giving you a CR of 4 for the standard warriors and 8 for a theoretical Largeboy.
Note: If you went this method, the Queen would be based on the Gargantuan Scorpion with I think a total CR of... 11?

 

[Bear Ribs]

If we're going one size larger she'd go off the "Huge" scorpion stats which puts her at CR 7 base. I'd say that Xenomorphs seem to generally be ambush predators so give them a racial bonus to hide and move silently, much as I dislike monsters with those traits. Probably also give them a climb speed since they seem to like attacking from above and crawling on walls and ceilings. Not sure if Xenomorphs should have tremorsense. 50' movement might be too fast, that's just barely below a racehorse and I'm not under the impression Xenomorphs put out that kind of sustained running speed.

Overall I'd say the CR8-9 for a queen is about right. The acid blood makes them trickier than other similar creatures.

Dumb fighters bitch about that. Smart firghters retreat then-

Any plan in DnD that involves retreat is a bad one. No players will generally do it, because unless you move significantly faster than the monsters, all you do is eat extra attacks every round without being able to counter, and die more quickly. Worse, about 90% of the monstrous manual can actually outrun the players, which goes up to about 95% if you've got a slow-moving dwarf or halfling in the party, so there's almost no reason to ever try.

The only way to successfully retreat is generally with the wizard pulling the right spell out and even that can be tricky given the requirements. Expeditious Retreat won't work because you can't share it with the party. Haste works vs. slower monsters but there's still a hefty chunk of the monstrous manual that can outrun even a hasted party. Teleport works provided the party's in a good position for everybody to touch the wizard but that's not a common tactical situation and by the time you're throwing teleports around that can move an entire party (especially if some of them brought mounts) the monsters are probably doing the same and possibly locking your teleports down.

DnD parties pretty much never retreat because the rules severely punish retreating.

 

[Lanmandragon]

If we're going one size larger she'd go off the "Huge" scorpion stats which puts her at CR 7 base. I'd say that Xenomorphs seem to generally be ambush predators so give them a racial bonus to hide and move silently, much as I dislike monsters with those traits. Probably also give them a climb speed since they seem to like attacking from above and crawling on walls and ceilings. Not sure if Xenomorphs should have tremorsense. 50' movement might be too fast, that's just barely below a racehorse and I'm not under the impression Xenomorphs put out that kind of sustained running speed.

Overall I'd say the CR8-9 for a queen is about right. The acid blood makes them trickier than other similar creatures.


Any plan in DnD that involves retreat is a bad one. No players will generally do it, because unless you move significantly faster than the monsters, all you do is eat extra attacks every round without being able to counter, and die more quickly. Worse, about 90% of the monstrous manual can actually outrun the players, which goes up to about 95% if you've got a slow-moving dwarf or halfling in the party, so there's almost no reason to ever try.

The only way to successfully retreat is generally with the wizard pulling the right spell out and even that can be tricky given the requirements. Expeditious Retreat won't work because you can't share it with the party. Haste works vs. slower monsters but there's still a hefty chunk of the monstrous manual that can outrun even a hasted party. Teleport works provided the party's in a good position for everybody to touch the wizard but that's not a common tactical situation and by the time you're throwing teleports around that can move an entire party (especially if some of them brought mounts) the monsters are probably doing the same and possibly locking your teleports down.

DnD parties pretty much never retreat because the rules severely punish retreating.

Tell me more about how Icant play the way I've been playing for 20 years.