Alternate History World War III: 1988, aka "The War of '88"

CarlManvers2019

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@Tiamat
What possible insurgents can be used though? I think the Labor Party even if gutted in Britain, could still become a tool

Also, I think its one of those presumptuous talk about how fiction changes the world, at best, he may have helped give people a release from a world they hate or some fantasy they’d prefer. Like a Pseudo-Communist utopia that would maybe manage to extremely enrage an actual Communist-Dystopia
 

Tiamat

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@Tiamat
What possible insurgents can be used though? I think the Labor Party even if gutted in Britain, could still become a tool

Also, I think its one of those presumptuous talk about how fiction changes the world, at best, he may have helped give people a release from a world they hate or some fantasy they’d prefer. Like a Pseudo-Communist utopia that would maybe manage to extremely enrage an actual Communist-Dystopia
Well, remember the groups I mentioned? Red Army Faction? Action Directe? The PLA and PLF? Red Brigades? Etc. etc.? They would love nothing more than to strike a blow at the heart of the Yankee Imperialist War Machine now, wouldn't they....?
 

CarlManvers2019

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What about the poorer non-Western countries? I think they maybe harder to convince

When they look at the West and Capitalists, all they may see are exploiters, Communists on the other hand are loved due to sheer romanticism and promises of a God/Government able to give them everything they want

Well, remember the groups I mentioned? Red Army Faction? Action Directe? The PLA and PLF? Red Brigades? Etc. etc.? They would love nothing more than to strike a blow at the heart of the Yankee Imperialist War Machine now, wouldn't they....?
They’ll have to live as terrorists, spies and guerilla fighter equivalents than actually launch an assault

How much can they accidentally make the public hate them?

If they manage to even genuinely shock and dishearten Hollywood-Leftists and Academics and entertainment creators and guys doing news....there may come a time where the police have to devote resources

So that they don’t get lynched by a people(s)they united in sheer hatred against them
 

Lord Invictus

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Interesting points here, I'll try to answer as best I can, again without spoilers.



The GRU Spetsnaz and KGB saboteur teams, with possible help from the East German Stasi, have their plans as stated to go after key civil infrastructure and personnel. Actually getting to some of them will be the problem. Law enforcement in the larger cities, and especially around port, manufacturing and refinery facilities are going to be spending extra on vehicles, weapons and antiterrorist training, within reason anyway. Some of the larger cities like New York City for example, will form their own antiterrorist task forces, if they haven't already. A movie example would be the ATAC (Anti Terrorist Action Command) squad from the movie Nighthawks.

Another element is the State Guards, not to be confused with the National Guard. The State Guards are going to get some additional funding to aid in the event of civil unrest or a nuclear attack, and more importantly to protect key infrastructure areas, doubly so when the FBI and CIA both confirm the very real possibility the GRU, Spetsnaz, Stasi and who knows who else will try to launch attacks inside the U.S. if and when the war comes. The emergency funding will come especially when Reagan and Weinberger get a report detailing the actual equipment and readiness levels for the State Guard which was, well, not great, and Reagan leans on the states to start whipping the Guards into better shape.

For more info on the State Guards, you can look here: State defense force - Wikipedia

That said...going after an American general or maybe a cabinet member on the Hill is one thing...and something that some of the Soviet/COMBLOC teams will probably attempt. Aiming for high profile figures like Reagan or Bush, or one of the Joint Chiefs? Not a good idea, as that could risk serious escalation, and just getting to the higher profile figures will be near impossible. D.C. and the Pentagon along with a few other key sites are going to be shut off from the general public with round the clock protection by U.S. Army National Guard, Marines, FBI and Secret Service.

As for when the Soviets go to war, something to consider here: The Soviets built their army to be an OFFENSIVE instrument. Strike hard, and go fast. Push NATO out of Germany and the Low Countries, take Denmark, and try to take the northern half of Norway, then force the allies to the table. Failing that? Push into France. The Soviets didn't really build their military as much for defensive purposes, as they felt the best defense was always a good offense, and with the Kremlin junta paranoid and convinced war is inevitable, they're going to decide at some point to do just that based on some key impending events...

While the Soviets have concerns about the reliability of some of it's satellite states like Poland and Czechoslovakia, keep in mind Gorbachev was deposed before he was able to institute more key reforms that began to make him popular in Eastern Europe. Here the Soviets and their friends like Honecker have clamped down viciously on any form of dissent. But how long they can continue to clamp down on such dissent remains to be seen once the war starts. And wouldn't the Americans and Brits, among others be interested in taking advantage of said tensions? Hmmm....

As for NATO not being an offensive force? Not entirely true. Even if NATO was tasked with defending Europe, it also knew it would theoretically have to fight hard and counterattack to retake lost ground from the Soviets and WARPA, on the assumption they could tilt the odds in their favor. So, there are a lot of pro and counter arguments to be made for the strategies on both sides.

As for bleeding the Americans to the table, the Soviets are counting on just that. They're hoping that America hasn't shaken off Vietnam just yet and hope the Americans will start pleading for peace in the face of mounting casualties and a possible impending nuclear Armageddon. However, in the cruelest form of irony, some key decisions, such as certain operations involving Dark Mirror might end up inducing the opposite reaction altogether. Also remember, this is after the events in Mexico with GREEN FOX. The Americans are pissed about the Cubans and Libyans showing up with self styled revolutionaries in Mexico and the deaths of multiple Americans along the Texas border, and while the Soviets weren't directly involved in that, the images of Soviet equipment in Mexican warehouses (yes, they were Cuban supplied, but that's sort of beside the point) and the backhanded comments from the Soviets themselves did the Kremlin no favors in the eyes of the American public.



The Americans and Brits may already have some plans in regards to winning hearts and minds of certain people in Eastern Europe, but thats just all rumor now, isn't it....??

As for Hollywood...again, I want to remind everyone, this is the late 1980's, the era that gave us movies like Red Dawn and Top Gun. America under Reagan has gotten a serious dose of patriotism, with "Let's Make America Great Again"....yes, Reagan coined that long before Trump did. And with the events of late, sure, it's bringing out the antiwar leftist factions, but nobody in Hollywood wants to be the next Hanoi Jane either. So anyone romanticizing the Communists, again after certain events that play out, are gonna be doing it in their bedrooms, not in Times Square.

As for that fellow you mentioned....oh please, I've barely heard of the man, he sounds like another idiot who wants to think he should get partial credit for ending the Cold War just like the man who directed "The Day After". The credit for ending the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union goes to several personas and factors, but he's not one of them.
Regarding Vietnam and casualties-the American public is indeed sensitive to casualties.

Its one thing to see on the TV or in the papers-our boys are winning, its entirely different when there is no victory in sight and the body bags keep on coming.

By late 44/45 the American public was starting to lose heart, too.

I don't want to rag on America-but American resolve is not infinite, how will the American people handle 10,000 casualties a day? For months? The only thing similar was the civil war which was 120 years prior on American soil.

The US also has the inherent weakness that dissent is tolerated-moreso than in the Soviet Union. Add that with war weariness when dealing with casualties, and you have a recipe for unrest spreading quickly-if things don't go smoothly.

Anti war sentiment may just exist at first on the far left end of the political spectrum, but give three years of high end fighting-and the American public will start to waver.

Of course the Soviets may fall apart before that comes to a head.
 

CarlManvers2019

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The US also has the inherent weakness that dissent is tolerated-moreso than in the Soviet Union. Add that with war weariness when dealing with casualties, and you have a recipe for unrest spreading quickly-if things don't go smoothly.

Anti war sentiment may just exist at first on the far left end of the political spectrum, but give three years of high end fighting-and the American public will start to waver.
You know, on Navarro's other thread, I talked to him about Fallout Nuclear Metal, we talked about how so many people there were blaming Capitalism

Like EVERYTHING or MOST of EVERYTHING was the fault of the Anti-Communist Powers

Nevermind that China there actually was an active threat and attacking and conquering Alaska

There will be some sort of talk as if the USA and everybody else should "make peace" with the Communists and submit to their terms or that the Communists are just victims of "Western Imperialists"

They can believe this even with refugees fleeing from Communist rule saying how horrible it all is, even defecting KGB agents and spies wouldn't be believed by those people
 

Tiamat

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Hi folks, apologies for not posting the next chapter up as quickly as planned, did a slight revision to how I wanted to write it out and should hopefully have it up within the next several days.

Also, as you may or may not know, I have been quite busy with real life issues in relation to the viral outbreak, I work at a hospital (I won't say which one) and am sort of on the frontlines of this. I'm fine, don't worry, my advice to everyone else is stay strong and hang tight, we have a road ahead but we'll get through it, remember those before us had a much tougher road, and as the events of this fictitious war will play out, it could have been MUCH worse.

The next chapter up will deal with a CIA op in Berlin with a character I'll be introducing that we'll be seeing more of in the future, along with an appearance from a much more well-known character. And then, another chapter detailing events in Iran which will further shape the eventual conflict, as well as another chapter with yet another character some of us may know as she finds herself witnessing the uglier side of history in the making, in the Balkans.

I also plan to do some slight revisions and maybe add a few more things to the equipment lists for the Americans, NATO and Western Allies, and Soviet/WARPAC/other Soviet-allied countries, after I did some additional research on a few things, just to make the "what-ifs" even more interesting. ;)

Also, I am internally debating bringing in a few characters that we might know from more "fantastical" genres, for lack of a better term, and how they might be reacting to the coming outbreak of the war and what they might be doing during that, but I think that depends on how the readers feel about it? Think World War 3 and Stranger Things, if that helps...?
 

Kujo

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Looking forward to more, this story and "Clover Spear", thanks Tiamat for update!
 
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