WI the Imperial Japanese Warships of Operation Ten-Go was ISOT to the Battle of Jutland
- Thread starter kclcmdr
- Start date
Dunno.But,even if not,somebody in crew must knew enough to made better engines for planes.
Well according to their wiki entry
| Aircraft carried |
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so there's the capacity but whether there were any then for the final mission I don't know. Given the massive allied air superiority they were facing possibly it wasn't thought worthwhile? However even if not the men who were used to service and support those a/c and related equipment might be.
Its likely that there will be some officers with either experience of flight training or at least some background knowledge. This may not be a huge leap forward but if nothing else they will have some ideas what not to do.
Buba
A total creep
My sentiment exactly, hence my suspicion that they did not. But I wanted to check
I later remembered that there is no shortage of small - i.e. vehicle or airplane size - engines aboard the Japanese vessel and which could be copied for various applications - think of all the ship's boats.
My sentiment exactly, hence my suspicion that they did not. But I wanted to check
I later remembered that there is no shortage of small - i.e. vehicle or airplane size - engines aboard the Japanese vessel and which could be copied for various applications - think of all the ship's boats.
Good point. Any such engine will probably give a lot of ideas to engineers & designers of the time.
My sentiment exactly, hence my suspicion that they did not. But I wanted to check
I later remembered that there is no shortage of small - i.e. vehicle or airplane size - engines aboard the Japanese vessel and which could be copied for various applications - think of all the ship's boats.
Indeed.Light tank need 80-90Kwh strong engine.
Buba
A total creep
Funny factoid - as its bridge superstructure was seven stories high, the Yamato had an ELEVATOR inside it. That alone pushes technology forward, even if in a small way and in an niche application.
ADDED LATER:
The seaplanes were stored below deck, because of the MEGA blast of the rear turret. The data I found is a mixed bag - some say "cranes" some say "elevator".
ADDED LATER:
The seaplanes were stored below deck, because of the MEGA blast of the rear turret. The data I found is a mixed bag - some say "cranes" some say "elevator".
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One important thing everyone in the IJN probably knows about that I don't think has been brought up is the severity of the 1918 flu epidemic. And that may effect how the war is fought. It should at least have the Japanese prepared to institute quarantines so the epidemic doesn't hit them as hard as OTL.
ch 02a Chatter Intercepts
kclcmdr
Well-known member
In Great Britain, Room 40, the secret British Intelligence Unit working to decipher Imperial German morse code, picks up more Morse Code chatter among with Radio chatter sent in the clear.
at 40 O.B.
" Commander Hope, sir, We have increase Morse code and radio chatter from that German Task Force possibly from Admiral Hipper's group, sir, but we don't understand what they are stating! "
" Indeed, repeat the Radio intercept you have received, please. "
" Yes, Commander.
' From Admiral Hipper to High Seas Fleet Command. Have sighted enemy formation North of our scouts. Enemy Dreadnaught plus escorts. They fly the Imperial Flag of Japan. We shall engage the enemy. ' That is all for now, Sir."
" What?! What Imperial Japanese ships are the Germans referring towards?! There are only some Imperial Japanese Destroyers doing escort duty in the Med at this time, are they mad or trying to deceive us? "
" Unknown sir. Further intercepts states that Admiral Hipper has raised their Battle Flag Ensigns and are going at Flank speed to intercept the incoming enemy Taskforce, sir..."
" Impossible... regardless... inform the Admiralty of the new Intercepts and see whether Admiral Jellicoe can send Admiral Beatty's destroyer & cruiser scouts to confirm or deny this incredulous report, Leftenant! "
" Yes, sir! "
--00--
Imperial Japanese Battleship Yamato
" Admiral, Sir! We have intercepted radio chatter from that ... Imperial German Taskforce heading towards us , sir! "
" Indeed? Has the message been translated and what did they transmit to their German Headquarters, Lieutenant? "
" The message states "
' From Admiral Hipper to High Seas Fleet Command. Have sighted enemy formation North of our scouts. Enemy Dreadnaught plus escorts. They fly the Imperial Flag of Japan. We shall engage the enemy. ' That is all for now, Admiral, sir. "
" Soo, it does not matter what we have stated beforehand, gentlemen. The Germans have declared us an enemy taskforce and that they are readying to engage us for Combat! Gentlemen...
Order the Taskforce for Combat at Flank speed.
Have the Yahagi ahead of us to maintain our course and to report our fall of shells reaches the target and give us corrections...
Also have our observers ready likewise..
Since there will be no German Aerial threats other than their Zeppelin scouts available during the Battle of Jutland, I believe...
Captain... please order the Asahimo, the Hamakaze and Isokaze to form up and head towards the enemy taskforce formation at flank speed and launch their Long Lances at twenty thousand meters at that Taskforce's escorts and then engage their Battleships also at twenty thousand meters once they are within range."
" Yes, Admiral... This will shock the Imperial Germans to their core like we did with the American Navy at Guadalcanal & the Solomons, sir. "
" Indeed. To your Battlestations, Gentlemen. May we Honour our Country and Emperor and do our Duty. "
--ooo--
Imperial High Seas Fleet Command at Kiel
" Admiral, sir! We have picked up a radio message in the clear from Admiral Hipper's Taskforce but this message does not make any sense, sir!"
" What is the message from Admiral Hipper?"
" The message reads "
' From Admiral Hipper to High Seas Fleet Command. Have sighted enemy formation North of our scouts. Enemy Dreadnaught plus escorts. They fly the Imperial Flag of Japan. We shall engage the enemy. ' That is all for now, Admiral, sir. "
" What... what do they mean an Imperial Japanese formation heading their way?
Radio Admiral Scheer to ask clarification from Admiral Hipper on what type of enemy formation and what ship, now! "
" Yes, Admiral! "
TBC
at 40 O.B.
" Commander Hope, sir, We have increase Morse code and radio chatter from that German Task Force possibly from Admiral Hipper's group, sir, but we don't understand what they are stating! "
" Indeed, repeat the Radio intercept you have received, please. "
" Yes, Commander.
' From Admiral Hipper to High Seas Fleet Command. Have sighted enemy formation North of our scouts. Enemy Dreadnaught plus escorts. They fly the Imperial Flag of Japan. We shall engage the enemy. ' That is all for now, Sir."
" What?! What Imperial Japanese ships are the Germans referring towards?! There are only some Imperial Japanese Destroyers doing escort duty in the Med at this time, are they mad or trying to deceive us? "
" Unknown sir. Further intercepts states that Admiral Hipper has raised their Battle Flag Ensigns and are going at Flank speed to intercept the incoming enemy Taskforce, sir..."
" Impossible... regardless... inform the Admiralty of the new Intercepts and see whether Admiral Jellicoe can send Admiral Beatty's destroyer & cruiser scouts to confirm or deny this incredulous report, Leftenant! "
" Yes, sir! "
--00--
Imperial Japanese Battleship Yamato
" Admiral, Sir! We have intercepted radio chatter from that ... Imperial German Taskforce heading towards us , sir! "
" Indeed? Has the message been translated and what did they transmit to their German Headquarters, Lieutenant? "
" The message states "
' From Admiral Hipper to High Seas Fleet Command. Have sighted enemy formation North of our scouts. Enemy Dreadnaught plus escorts. They fly the Imperial Flag of Japan. We shall engage the enemy. ' That is all for now, Admiral, sir. "
" Soo, it does not matter what we have stated beforehand, gentlemen. The Germans have declared us an enemy taskforce and that they are readying to engage us for Combat! Gentlemen...
Order the Taskforce for Combat at Flank speed.
Have the Yahagi ahead of us to maintain our course and to report our fall of shells reaches the target and give us corrections...
Also have our observers ready likewise..
Since there will be no German Aerial threats other than their Zeppelin scouts available during the Battle of Jutland, I believe...
Captain... please order the Asahimo, the Hamakaze and Isokaze to form up and head towards the enemy taskforce formation at flank speed and launch their Long Lances at twenty thousand meters at that Taskforce's escorts and then engage their Battleships also at twenty thousand meters once they are within range."
" Yes, Admiral... This will shock the Imperial Germans to their core like we did with the American Navy at Guadalcanal & the Solomons, sir. "
" Indeed. To your Battlestations, Gentlemen. May we Honour our Country and Emperor and do our Duty. "
--ooo--
Imperial High Seas Fleet Command at Kiel
" Admiral, sir! We have picked up a radio message in the clear from Admiral Hipper's Taskforce but this message does not make any sense, sir!"
" What is the message from Admiral Hipper?"
" The message reads "
' From Admiral Hipper to High Seas Fleet Command. Have sighted enemy formation North of our scouts. Enemy Dreadnaught plus escorts. They fly the Imperial Flag of Japan. We shall engage the enemy. ' That is all for now, Admiral, sir. "
" What... what do they mean an Imperial Japanese formation heading their way?
Radio Admiral Scheer to ask clarification from Admiral Hipper on what type of enemy formation and what ship, now! "
" Yes, Admiral! "
TBC
Please continue your good work.
And - i would love to see faces of both german and british commanders.
Well this is going to be interesting. The Japanese are heavily outgunned by the German BCs but the latter have to get into range and anything Yamato hits with those 18" guns will be really hurt. The additional armour compared to the British BCs - especially the old I class DAC [Dreadnought Armoured Cruisers] as they were initially called could be a disadvantage as their more likely to trigger the shell before its possibly passed totally through the ship!
Think Buba has a point with the torpedoes. Although would the German BCs actually form a line abreast the Yamato? They would need to close to get into range which if the Yamato was to maneuver to keep its distance would be pretty much impossible - although it would mean only the rear turret firing much of the time.
How good is the Japanese radar as the weather was distinctly patchy that day with a lot of squalls and the like at times?
One other thing is that the Germans might well under-estimate the range given that they have no idea how bloody big the Yamato is. Given what they might know of Japanese BBs at the time - although they would be puzzled at seeing triple turrets they would probably think its less than half the size it actually is and hence a lot closer.
Would the Japanese actually be able to read the German messages? Room 40 has done it because they have broken the German codes but while some Japanese officers would know about this from 'history' I doubt they would have copies of those ~30 year old codes on their ship? They would get an intercept possibly and then radar would tell them that the Germans are accelerating towards them which is a good hint of hostile intent but probably not be able to read the actual messages.
The Japanese are heavily outgunned by the German BCs but the latter have to get into range and anything Yamato hits with those 18" guns will be really hurt. The additional armour compared to the British BCs - especially the old I class DAC [Dreadnought Armoured Cruisers] as they were initially called could be a disadvantage as their more likely to trigger the shell before its possibly passed totally through the ship!Think Buba has a point with the torpedoes. Although would the German BCs actually form a line abreast the Yamato? They would need to close to get into range which if the Yamato was to maneuver to keep its distance would be pretty much impossible - although it would mean only the rear turret firing much of the time.
How good is the Japanese radar as the weather was distinctly patchy that day with a lot of squalls and the like at times?
One other thing is that the Germans might well under-estimate the range given that they have no idea how bloody big the Yamato is. Given what they might know of Japanese BBs at the time - although they would be puzzled at seeing triple turrets they would probably think its less than half the size it actually is and hence a lot closer.
Would the Japanese actually be able to read the German messages? Room 40 has done it because they have broken the German codes but while some Japanese officers would know about this from 'history' I doubt they would have copies of those ~30 year old codes on their ship? They would get an intercept possibly and then radar would tell them that the Germans are accelerating towards them which is a good hint of hostile intent but probably not be able to read the actual messages.
Buba
A total creep
I doubt the Room 40 reading coded messages on the fly. But those in clear?
As to the Japanese - what are the chances of having dudes fluent in German on it?
But as this is a fantasy story - I will roll with the casting of [Complehend Ranguage] on the radio operators
As to the Japanese - what are the chances of having dudes fluent in German on it?
But as this is a fantasy story - I will roll with the casting of [Complehend Ranguage] on the radio operators
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I doubt the Room 40 reading coded messages on the fly. But those in clear?
As to the Japanese - what are the chances of dudes fluent in German on it?
But as this is a fantasy story - I will roll with the casting of [Complehend Ranguage] on the radio operators
Not sure that the Germans did any messages in the clear. Given the importance of the mission I would be surprised they would give such details to a potential enemy. This is one of the factors that is supposed to have screwed up the two Russian armies in E Prussia in 1914.
Given that Japan in 1945 has been friendly with Germany for some time I suspect there's a decent chance of some officers knowing the language.
As you say for a good story go with the flow.
The other issue would be having spotted a single Japanese BB - which they weren't expecting - would the HSF seek to withdraw, not knowing what's beyond the horizon behind it? Their target was the British BC force rather than a full scale clash with the entire British fleet and now this surprise has occurred.
Not sure that the Germans did any messages in the clear. Given the importance of the mission I would be surprised they would give such details to a potential enemy. This is one of the factors that is supposed to have screwed up the two Russian armies in E Prussia in 1914.
Given that Japan in 1945 has been friendly with Germany for some time I suspect there's a decent chance of some officers knowing the language.
As you say for a good story go with the flow.
The other issue would be having spotted a single Japanese BB - which they weren't expecting - would the HSF seek to withdraw, not knowing what's beyond the horizon behind it? Their target was the British BC force rather than a full scale clash with the entire British fleet and now this surprise has occurred.
I think,that after seeing one Japaneese BB,especially if they belived that it is smaller,would made them attack it to check what is beyond,and before british come.
Buba
A total creep
Having only three turrets may had been interpreted as 25-30k battlecruiser?
bintananth
behind a desk
Yamato is an outside context problem for the Kaiserliche Marine.
From their perspective upon seeing her at very long range based on what they know about the IJN: "She's probably a battlecruiser packing 6x15in in twin turrets or 9x14" in triples."
Until she's close enough for them to discern the number of guns per turret and get a rangefinder on her they'll be blissfully unaware that a) those aren't 14" or 15" and b) she's a whole heck of a lot bigger than anything they've got.
The HSF is massacred.
The British get "excited" once they see the size of the Japanese flagship and order between four and eight 4x2x18" battleships - they already have such rifles in production, they only need to design a twin turret for them
The post-WWI British naval planning was *already* aimed at four N3 class battleships with three triple 18" and four G3 class battlecruisers with nine triple 16" in order to remain ahead of the post-war expansion plans of Japan and the United States. In a timeline where Japan *already has* Yamato as a super-battleship of unbelievable proportions, the various world powers would still want a Washington Naval Treaty deal given the even more ruinous costs of "needing" to match Yamato, but there is no way the Americans and British would accept anything less than 1:1 parity in 18" superbattleships.
(Japan's position being infinitely stronger in this timeline, pushing them down to a 5:5:3 ratio would be out of the question. The most likely alternate WNT would be that Japan, Britain, and the United States agree to have only two 18" superbattleships of Yamato size; France and Italy agree to have one each, and all other battleships are limited to 16" guns and substantially lesser tonnage.)
Buba
A total creep
@ShadowArxxy All true, but we are in 1916, not 18-20.
Thinking of it, the Japanese will lie about the calibre of their guns, saying "41cm, nothing special, move along, move along ... ". Avoiding size comparisons (hurrhurr) is one of the reasons I was thinking about when I envisioned the Japanese squadron avoiding British ports.
5:5:3 was not bad. It was the 15:15:10 which was bad. 18:18:12 better
Thinking of it, the Japanese will lie about the calibre of their guns, saying "41cm, nothing special, move along, move along ... ". Avoiding size comparisons (hurrhurr) is one of the reasons I was thinking about when I envisioned the Japanese squadron avoiding British ports.
5:5:3 was not bad. It was the 15:15:10 which was bad. 18:18:12 better