WI -Barbarossa if Entente DOW against Soviets in '39 or '40

Buba

A total creep
How do you think WWII would had run if France and UK had declared war on the Soviets after their invasion of Poland?
If you think that implausible, then have the Entente execute Operation Pike :)

When would the Moscow-Berlin Axis of Evil go to war against one another?
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Given effectiveness of British bombers at this stage of war I doubt operation would be particularly successful. Moscow and Berlin probably wouldn't be as allied as entente was, so it will be more or less two separate wars.
Stalin would probably use it as pretext to invade Turkey, in order to get to Iraq and Syria, while establishing long term goal of controlling the Straits of Bosphorus. It would be a gruelling and bloody campaign. Perhaps there would be also invasion of Iran.
 

Buba

A total creep
Oh, I know that for the RAF bombing the right country was a success at this time :)
 

ATP

Well-known member
How do you think WWII would had run if France and UK had declared war on the Soviets after their invasion of Poland?
If you think that implausible, then have the Entente execute Operation Pike :)

When would the Moscow-Berlin Axis of Evil go to war against one another?

Possible only if our leader,Rydz-Śmigły do not ordered our army to not fight soviets and run.Considering how shitty soviet army was,we would fight them till we have ammo - some 2-3 months.
Them Allies must declare war on soviets.

No attack on Finland/soviets would fight Poland/ ,but after fall of France soviets would attack Turkey,Iraq and Iran.I think,that when german send Rommel to Libya,attack from both sides would break british there and in 1941 they would hold only part of Iran and Sudan.

Now,Pearl Harbour just like OTL,Hitler declare war on USA just like OTL - but Stalin not.He wait till 1944,backstab his ally, take entire Europe - and USA made deal with him just like in OTL.England do not matter anymore,just like OTL,too.

Thanks to taking Europe,soviets overrun more of Africa and Asia.Soviet India,maybe ? But they go bancrupt just like in OTL.Only difference - communism would genocide 400-800 millions instead of 100-200.
 

Buba

A total creep
Possible only if our leader,Rydz-Śmigły do not ordered our army to not fight soviets and run.
Considering how shitty soviet army was,we would fight them till we have ammo - some 2-3 months.
By 17.IX. the Polish Army was smashed. There would be no Polish-Soviet War lasting deep into the winter.
 

ATP

Well-known member
By 17.IX. the Polish Army was smashed. There would be no Polish-Soviet War lasting deep into the winter.

Nope.German destroyed part of our army,but more then 60% still fought,and we were forming new units - equivalent of 7 fresh dyvisions.Considering that german was almost out of ammo and fuel,and soviet sucked,we would fight them till ammo end.And our army have,depending on gun,3-6 month reserve.Which mean 2-3 months of fighting after soviets come.

Which,if Stalin do not declare war on USA like Hitler,still means that USA would made deal with soviets,just like OTL.Only difference - more countries taken,and more victims.At least idiots in Western Europe would not lied about good soviets.
 

SpicyJuan

Active member
Nope.German destroyed part of our army,but more then 60% still fought,and we were forming new units - equivalent of 7 fresh dyvisions.Considering that german was almost out of ammo and fuel,and soviet sucked,we would fight them till ammo end.And our army have,depending on gun,3-6 month reserve.Which mean 2-3 months of fighting after soviets come.

Which,if Stalin do not declare war on USA like Hitler,still means that USA would made deal with soviets,just like OTL.Only difference - more countries taken,and more victims.At least idiots in Western Europe would not lied about good soviets.


campaign-in-poland-15-22-september-1939.jpg


The maps say it all, honestly.
 
Last edited:

ATP

Well-known member


campaign-in-poland-15-22-september-1939.jpg


The maps say it all, honestly.
Not showing german lack of fuel and ammo.And soviet incopetence.And new polish units.And fresh recruits waiting for new units.And weapons for them which was captured unused by soviets in OTL.
All in all, with new units and 200.000 fresh recruits,we could have 400.000 strong army in East Poland.If they fought instead of capitulate,we would get 2-3 month of fight more.
Which would change nothing for Poland,but everything for Western Europe if Allies declared war on soviets.

Becouse it would mean no Barbarossa,soviet attack on Turkey,Iraq and Iran,and,since they would not declare war on USA,soviet backstabbing their german allies in 1944.
Which end in most Europe in soviet hands/Italy,Spain,England and Scandinavian would remain free/
Soviet would still fall becouse of economics - but more people would die.
 

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