What if the Philippine Republic was ISOT'ed from July 4th 1954 to July 4th 1934?

raharris1973

Well-known member
Two months after the passage of the Tydings-McDuffie act schduling Filipino independence for the mid-40s, in May 1934, during the 4th of July holiday, after a cone of light envelops the Philippines, the archipelago is replaced by a version of itself from exactly 20 years later, July 4th, 1954.

No non-Filipino people have arrived back with the 1954 Philippines, no Americans, no third country nationals, but all the property and equipment, including the military and naval equipment at Clark Airfield and Subic Bay, are left behind and now exist in the world 1934.

So we have the 1954 Philippines and Filipinos, a developing country, but one possessing plenty of interesting 'news from the future' and samples of future technology, military and civilian, living in the world of 1934. What happens next?
 
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Buba

A total creep
No four terms for FDR. I expect him to get the boot in 1936. News of his lies and cheating and revelation of actual state of health, the cuddling of Stalin, the attempt at stuffing the Supreme Court etc. etc. coming on top of the steal of gold from the population should finish him.
Truman's career is probably killed by news of his desegregation of the armed forces.
Many dead, jailed, exiled or shunned politicians all over the place. E.g. De Gaulle is taken of the active list and retired on "medical grounds" ASAP ...
Global rearmament - no 2nd LNT, for starters. Also, France extends military service to 24 months immediately. Many battleships and other neverwere's built :)
With a stronger - and forewarned of the consequences - France I do not see the remilitarisation of the Rheinland happening when it did, and the entire history of the IIIrc Reich running differently. Besides unification of the Saarland another possible gain might be the Anschluss happening - but no Munich Treaty, no Memel etc.
Mussolini possibly told to stay away from Abyssynia.
An earlier civil war in Spain?
Inside two-three years the world is close to unrecognizeable.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Two months after the passage of the Tydings-McDuffie act schduling Filipino independence for the mid-40s, in May 1934, during the 4th of July holiday, after a cone of light envelops the Philippines, the archipelago is replaced by a version of itself from exactly 20 years later, July 4th, 1954.

No non-Filipino people have arrived back with the 1954 Philippines, no Americans, no third country nationals, but all the property and equipment, including the military and naval equipment at Clark Airfield and Subic Bay, are left behind and now exist in the world 1934.

So we have the 1954 Philippines and Filipinos, a developing country, but one possessing plenty of interesting 'news from the future' and samples of future technology, military and civilian, living in the world of 1934. What happens next?
So,they get soviet embassy with all their papers,just like embassies of other countries?
Philippinos knew who is working for whom,then.

I bet,that countries from 1934 would pay in gold for their 1954 papers !


News of the future -
1.Japan - they would not attack China,but get ready for war with soviet instead.Most aggressive generals would commit Sudoku !
2.France - They start making army stronger,and invade germans when they did anytching.In OTL tey refused polish proposition of attacking them together - now,they would agree.

3.Poland - the same,and cracking on all polish commies.And all who supported them in future.

4.England - stop helping germans,do not agree to bigger german fleet,crush them with France.

5.Germany - either Hitler try take Rineland and get destroyed,or not.
But,if he start developing army,France&Poland would go for german throat.

6.USA - FDR lost his job,country get stronger Navy and Army.

7.Soviets - Either Sralin get killed before he started purges,or he purge more,including all those who replaced him in 1953.

8.China - Czang focus on crushing commies,do not provoke Japan/with Japan also backing from fight,we do not have war there.

All in all - No WW2,becouse Japan keep fighting soviets/and get Siberia as result/, and germans get crushed and occupied by France&Poland

Maybe this time they would gave freedom to german states,especially catholics !
 

ATP

Well-known member
What could the Phillippines manufacture for export and enjoy a monopoly for several years?
Notching? i doubt they had any cutting-edge technology which led them mass produce anytching,only samples of what was made and knowledge how it was made.

So,for example,they could probably not made tv,but had plans for it.
 

raharris1973

Well-known member
I think from a military/naval logic point of view, those in the Japanese armed forces who, even with insight into the future want to go for strategic expansionism and independence - just to 'get it right' this time, their best and most urgent move would be to try to invade and overwhelm the Philippines. The Philippines, if conquered, can be a source of better weapons and some other technologies, and if left alone is too much of a threat and can only grow and spread bad publicity about Japan and help Japan's enemies. Not saying Japan would win, although it would likely have numerical advantages making them at least a serious menace, even if tactical memories and superior weaponry plus guerrilla skills could make the Filipinos prevail.

The transported in time Filipinos, while not yielding up independence, would invite the 1934 Americans to reoccupy their bases in the country to reestablish alliance ties and a hedge against Japan and any potential unknown emerging threats. They would also try to negotiate continued access to the US market for exports. The Filipinos would be willing to share US tech back with the Americans. The 1934 Americans, who just passed planned independence and are focused climbing out of the Depression, won't obnoxiously try to rescind Filipino independence, especially when they see what the Filipinos have done with the place.

However, actually sending fleet elements from the Pacific fleet to replace the Asiatic fleet (at least all its 1934 and 1954 personnel, officers and sailors- even if not unmanned 1954 'ghost ships') could be something 1934 USA decides is just too expensive to do. And sugar growing states could argue that America's market access obligation to the now independent Philippines is over with independence. That would all be a matter for negotiation. And of course the Filipinos can also initiate outreach for defense cooperation and tech sharing with the British Empire, Dutch, French, and Nationalist Chinese as well as the USA.

However, isolationist American and public inclinations may be towards the Philippines and western Pacific commitments, in an unstressed situation in 1934. 'news from the future' will make the Americans, and everybody else, cast a wary eye on the Japanese. The Carl Vinson naval bill of 1934 will be fully funded, and doubled or trebled, with the Americans trying to incorporate reverse engineered tech recovered from the Filipinos into it where possible. Nobody will bother with the London Naval Treaty attempts of 1935.
 
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ATP

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I think from a military/naval logic point of view, those in the Japanese armed forces who, even with insight into the future want to go for strategic expansionism and independence - just to 'get it right' this time, their best and most urgent move would be to try to invade and overwhelm the Philippines. The Philippines, if conquered, can be a source of better weapons and some other technologies, and if left alone is too much of a threat and can only grow and spread bad publicity about Japan and help Japan's enemies. Not saying Japan would win, although it would likely have numerical advantages making them at least a serious menace, even if tactical memories and superior weaponry plus guerrilla skills could make the Filipinos prevail.

The transported in time Filipinos, while not yielding up independence, would invite the 1934 Americans to reoccupy their bases in the country to reestablish alliance ties and a hedge against Japan and any potential unknown emerging threats. They would also try to negotiate continued access to the US market for exports. The Filipinos would be willing to share US tech back with the Americans. The 1934 Americans, who just passed planned independence and are focused climbing out of the Depression, won't obnoxiously try to rescind Filipino independence, especially when they see what the Filipinos have done with the place.

However, actually sending fleet elements from the Pacific fleet to replace the Asiatic fleet (at least all its 1934 and 1954 personnel, officers and sailors- even if not unmanned 1954 'ghost ships') could be something 1934 USA decides is just too expensive to do. And sugar growing states could argue that America's market access obligation to the now independent Philippines is over with independence. That would all be a matter for negotiation. And of course the Filipinos can also initiate outreach for defense cooperation and tech sharing with the British Empire, Dutch, French, and Nationalist Chinese as well as the USA.

However, isolationist American and public inclinations may be towards the Philippines and western Pacific commitments, in an unstressed situation in 1934. 'news from the future' will make the Americans, and everybody else, cast a wary eye on the Japanese. The Carl Vinson naval bill of 1934 will be fully funded, and doubled or trebled, with the Americans trying to incorporate reverse engineered tech recovered from the Filipinos into it where possible. Nobody will bother with the London Naval Treaty attempts of 1935.
Would 1954 Philippines hold empty merican ships from 1954,or gave them to USA?
What about planes and/if they existed/ tanks in american bases ?

That aside,i forget about few countries:
1.Italy - no invasion of Ethiopis,not joining germans
2.Czech - no hostility against Poland,they honestly try Alliance.End of unofficial alliance with soviets.
3.Hungary - not joinining germans.
4.Romania - more mpney on army,close ties with Poland
5.Dutch - not provoking Japan becouse USA wanted so,sell them as much money as they want.Alliance with France against germans.
6.Belgium - Alliance with France and Poland,and join invasion of Germany when they try anytching.

All in all - Hitler,being Hitler,would still take Rhineland,France,Poland,Czech with possible Belgium,Dutch and Denmark help crush him.
Free Germany again/Bavaria and other states/, prussia occupied till they pay all reparations.
To made it cheap,with Senegal troops.


Soviets would not try anytching,except purging more soviet elites/killing sralin/both.

Japan could go after Siberia,and take it.Nobody would care.
 

AmosTrask

Well-known member
You are forgetting. Those Naval bases had 30% locally recruited Pinoys among their military personnel including the crews. With some rare Pinoy USN and USMC officers.
 

ATP

Well-known member
You are forgetting. Those Naval bases had 30% locally recruited Pinoys among their military personnel including the crews. With some rare Pinoy USN and USMC officers.
Well,they were removed by ROB,just like american sailors.
 

raharris1973

Well-known member
Well,they were removed by ROB,just like american sailors.
ROB here. (well, Rob)

It's good to share a first name with a random omnipotent being. ;) If they are Filipino (Pinoy) and not naturalized American citizens, who have established residency in another US territory or state, and are in the Philippines area, they get to stay behind with the Philippines, even if they are doing service in or with the US armed services.
 
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ATP

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ROB here. (well, Rob)

It's good to share a first name with a random omnipotent being. ;) If they are Filipino (Pinoy) and not naturalized American citizens, who have established residency in another US territory or state, and are in the Philippines area, they get to stay behind with the Philippines, even if they are doing service in or with the US armed servi

Good for them,they would knew how operate american weapons.And,another bargaing chip to play with 1934 USA.
I think,that every country from Europe would like to have new weapons,too.They could sell plans now.

P.S Could they find list of soviet spies in soviet embassy? and would be it useful in 1934? most soviet spies were probably still innocent dudes/or children/ then.
 

AmosTrask

Well-known member
Well,they were removed by ROB,just like american sailors.

ROB here. (well, Rob)

It's good to share a first name with a random omnipotent being. ;) If they are Filipino (Pinoy) and not naturalized American citizens, who have established residency in another US territory or state, and are in the Philippines area, they get to stay behind with the Philippines, even if they are doing service in or with the US armed services.
The US recruited heavily from local populations offering full citizenship as a reward for a full 5 year term of service. I'm not sure if they still do but it's how several of my relatives became Americans. They joined one of the USAF arms in the late 70s mid 80s. In the Philippines. Almost their entire generation from our home village enlisted.
 

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