Fallout What If? The Enclave decided to conquer or reassimilate the Wastelanders instead?

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
I honestly haven’t played Fallout 1&2, don’t have a Windows for it, but I have seen lore and vids

I’m wondering this, how would things go if the Enclave from the very start rejected the idea of committing mass genocide but still wanted to take over the Wastelands?

How would things go? What politics or economic problems would occur?
 

Navarro

Well-known member
They win. It should be easy to negotiate an annexation of the NCR, and the groups that could oppose them - the Shi, the Brotherhood etc. are frankly too small to face up to the combination of Enclave tech and numbers. If Caesar's Legion does rise in this TL, it doesn't last long. Following that, the only major force that could stand up to them are the Midwest Brotherhood - everybody else is again, too small to matter.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Would Caesar even be insane enough to think he can fight the Enclave or even provide wastelanders with a better choice of living standards and security?
 

Human Primacy

Well-known member
Probably go a lot like the Brotherhood in Fallout: Tactics. They're in the same situation of having access to a lot of advanced technology, but are lacking in manpower. They'd steamroll almost anyone in a fight, but they can't be everywhere, and you need men to hold territory. They'd either need to get NCR to join with them, as stated above, or start establishing a sort of pseudo-feudalism like the midwest Brotherhood did. It'd be necessary to have a working relationship with the wastelanders based on more than just violence and intimidation if they're going to trust any of them with carrying weapons in their name. And probably have to introduce military technology slowly as newcomers become assimilated into the Enclave. You don't give every new recruit from an occupied territory a suit of power armor and a minigun, even if you have enough to go around. The biggest threat in expansion will be the possibility of insurrection from people that they've armed, rather than external military forces.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
@Human Primacy
I imagine there will be much squeamishness to even interacting with Wastelanders, possible mutations aside, you gotta note how the average Wastelander is probably really dirty, smells like shit, has bathed in radioactive or impure water full of chemicals bacteria and wears clothes that are NOT fresh from the laundry, eat mutant plants&animals and are either homeless wanderers or live in really dirty places

Also, chem addicts and STDs

Enclave representatives or Ambassadors having to live NEAR them maybe very uncomfortable
 

Human Primacy

Well-known member
I suppose the level of disdain will depend on the internal culture of the Enclave, which is something already up in the air since the premise that they aren't all genocidey means that said culture is fundamentally different from canon. Still though, yes, these are people still living in some form of pre war civilization, so there's going to be some level of social class differential with regular Enclavers and recruited people. This may be a reason to prioritize the annexation of sealed vaults.

It may be less of a case of taking them into the Enclave proper and more of establishing Enclave-backed militias to hold settlements.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Combat armour and laser rifles would be sufficient to hold off raiders and such - see how the Salvatores became the dominant gang in New Reno simply on account of the Enclave supplying them a reliable supply of laser pistols.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Combat armour and laser rifles would be sufficient to hold off raiders and such - see how the Salvatores became the dominant gang in New Reno simply on account of the Enclave supplying them a reliable supply of laser pistols.

Speaking of gangs and raideds, would the Enclave try banning or regulating chem use as well as people having access to firearms? Some people can get their hands on a mininuke
 

Human Primacy

Well-known member
Combat armour and laser rifles would be sufficient to hold off raiders and such - see how the Salvatores became the dominant gang in New Reno simply on account of the Enclave supplying them a reliable supply of laser pistols.

I might shy away from being too ready to give people energy weapons in large amounts, but yeah, that'd be the general idea. Give your militias enough to make them superior to other wastelanders, but not so much that they can't be easily taken down be well equipped Enclave soldiers if they get funny ideas about where they stand. It would depend on the threats present in the area. If the threats are tribals or people with pointy sticks and rusted out single shot weapons, then a flak jacket and an assault rifle makes the militia into gods. If the raiders are well equipped and organized, maybe revisit that laser rifle idea. If that won't cut it, then the Enclave proper will need to pacify the region.

Speaking of gangs and raideds, would the Enclave try banning or regulating chem use as well as people having access to firearms? Some people can get their hands on a mininuke

I would say yes. They dealt in chem trades in FO2, but that was with people they intended to kill, anyways. Part of remaking civilization is instituting law and order, and you can't have rampant chem use and trade destabilizing all that.

Guns are a little fuzzier, since you have to have people protect themselves, and as stated, they Enclave can't be everywhere. Having militias means access to arms. I don't expect a full 2nd Amendment style rule though. My impression is that the US government had slipped into full authoritarian some time before the war, so I don't expect the Enclave holds to the principle of a right to bear arms.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
I would say yes. They dealt in chem trades in FO2, but that was with people they intended to kill, anyways. Part of remaking civilization is instituting law and order, and you can't have rampant chem use and trade destabilizing all that.

Guns are a little fuzzier, since you have to have people protect themselves, and as stated, they Enclave can't be everywhere. Having militias means access to arms. I don't expect a full 2nd Amendment style rule though. My impression is that the US government had slipped into full authoritarian some time before the war, so I don't expect the Enclave holds to the principle of a right to bear arms.

Speaking of chem trade, what about Capitalism? I think as the primary owners as the most advanced technology and infrastructure, the Enclave would be controlling the market or have a monopoly on many things

Like say, the radios for better trade amongst settlements.....my god they’re State Capitalists.....they became Communists
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Not necessarily communist, they could allow independent business, but with the threat of seizure if they don't comply with state demands. So fascist, or mercantilism, maybe? It's... marginally better.

Perhaps they may justify it as everything still being under more-or-less Martial Law

However, would you prefer the risky anarchy to the peace & order of the Enclave, their demands at the moment are relatively few and their presence isn’t too large

They are also the reason that a few new trade route even exist by virtue of having massacred and hung all the raiders, installed turrets to deal with the local wildlife, have taught and given better medical services which are why less miscarriages or bad birthings have occurred and why you can even contact your folks on the other side of this “state”

Wonder how long they would keep hold of this power, when no Communists are around
 

Human Primacy

Well-known member
Depends what the alternative is. Authoritarians are nothing new, and I would say most humans throughout civilized history have live under some rather authoritarian system. It depends on what the alternative is, and what they think the alternative could be. If the alternative to living under the Enclave is 'murdered by raiders' or 'eaten by mutants', then yeah, I expect most people to be pretty chill about it. Also, if they have no frame of reference for what a free society is, and only have any knowledge of living under savage anarchy or military rule, then how would they know there's a better possibility?
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Also, if they have no frame of reference for what a free society is, and only have any knowledge of living under savage anarchy or military rule, then how would they know there's a better possibility?

Well, they can romanticise the past/present of the ungoverned Wild Wild West Post-Apocalypse areas whilst discounting how bad raider groups and other factors affect everyday life really
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
Would Caesar even be insane enough to think he can fight the Enclave or even provide wastelanders with a better choice of living standards and security?

No reason to assume someone like Caesar wouldn't. While some tribes have historically subordinated themselves to foreign powers, others have always resisted conquest by outside powers and some would always do that almost regardless of who showed up in their backyard. In the Fallout setting that seems even more likely then in OTL and Caesar never seemed like the power sharing type in general so even if they are destined to 'lose' they'd probably still contest a more 'tolerant' Enclave.

Typically that would be a rough engagement even for the Enclave even if they had swallowed up the NCR peacefully even if the outcome is inevitable but it would likely be made easier because more then a few people reference the theory that without Caesar, the Legion would be greatly diminished and could even fall into infighting sooner rather then later. It might be less likely with folks like Joshua Graham and Lanius about, but hunting down three targets instead of one is far from an insurmountable obstacle.

Dealing with <200 tribes or whatever, like all of the ones that comprised the Legion as well as random Tribes like the Khans and Fiends and Crazy 80's and White Legs etc might actually be a far more pernicious threat then dealing with an all unifying Legion even if the latter could boost the military potential of the tribes far beyond any potential they would've had on their own.
 

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