WHAT IF the 2020 Presidential Election was PROVEN Fraudulant and Trump was actually Elected???

[The Whispering Monk]

Just what the title says.

How would that impact the current administration...the House...the Senate...all the legislation and executive orders?

What about all the interactions not-President Biden has had with international powers?

Run through the ramifications...legally, politically, socially...how bad would things get?

 

[Husky_Khan]

The thing is the Constitution I don't think provides any sort of explanation for covering the illegitimacy of an election. Regardless of how you're elected (that has changed over time after all in our countries history) once your sworn in, your the President or in whatever political office you might be elected to. Thus even if the Election is clearly turned out to be fraudulent, you'd still need to impeach President Biden. And let's say that you do impeach the guy and the entire cabinet (or they all resign and Trump rolls in) all of Biden's legislation and Executive Orders yadda yadda would still be in effect as before.

You'd probably want an addition to the 25th Amendment or whatever to add Proven Fraud or whatever for the reasons to remove a President or other politician from the office they were sworn into. I have no idea the language on it, or how open to exploitation such a concept could be since it'd assumingly be done independently of the process of Impeachment. After all some people might find the excuse that "Oh Biden didn't know about the fraudulent election even if he benefited from it, so it shouldn't be impeached." Though again, in a case of proven fraud, one would assume (ha!) that the Administration would resign.

 

[edgeworthy]

I believe that as the law stands as HK has said there is no provision that would legally remove Biden under such circumstances.

If the election is proven to be fraudulent that does not mean that Trump was elected, it means that the election was fraudulent. If it is invalid that means NO ONE won. Under the law Trump's term of office has now expired, legally he cannot be considered President.
And should Biden, and his administration, be impeached and removed from office the Constitution of the United States moves onto the next person in the Presidential Line of Succession, until such time as a legitimate election can be held.

Which means up to three years of ... President Nancy Pelosi!

 

[Bear Ribs]

Even if you could prove fraud in every state....

The constitution gives no figs for the popular votes of the states, only the electoral college. Did the electoral college vote for Biden? Yes. His presidency is legitimate.

Thus it is as @edgeworthy and @Husky_Khan say. The most extreme result possible would be an impeachment on the grounds that the current president and vice president gained their positions via fraud, followed by Nancy Pelosi becoming president.

Long term there's likely to be more reprecussions. Laws protecting the electoral process are going to be passed, and anti-fraud measures are going to become more stringent. It's quite likely there's going to be mandatory audits for every election from school president on up going forward. Trump has a fair chance of winning in 2024 if he can campaign on "I actually won but was defrauded." Public knowledge that they cheated is going to hurt the Democrats... a lot. They will lose scads of voters who want to see themselves as being in the moral position. Most likely the Republicans win the next 3-4 presidential elections and rake in legislative seats while the Democratic party disintegrates entirely. Bereft of any competition, the Republican party gets complacent and stupid and proceeds to self-destruct as well, pushing too hard when there's no enemy to push back and promoting laws that are mostly pork and grift once they get too comfortable in their ways.

After a few cycles the five dozen parties that result will distill down into two major parties again, because the US voting system can only support two major parties plus relatively unimportant fringe groups, this is mathematically proven. A significant number of core positions remain the same, while some edge positions may swap sides due to deal-making and how things shake out. You may find hardcore environmentalism on the conservative side this time, f'rex, supported by enthusiastic hunting and fishing advocates who want nature to be preserved for their lifestyle; while the left gains a greater focus on private charitable groups in the name of doing good.

This will, unfortunately, be heavily influenced by corporations picking who to fund, though most will simply fund both sides as usual and reap the benefits no matter who wins.

 

[bintananth]

The popular vote could have been fradulant as hell and it wouldn't matter one bit because the popular vote counts for about as much as the toilet paper you or I use to wipe our bottoms after we use a toilet to empty our large intestines.

The Electoral College chose Biden and Congress said "yup, that result is valid". That's what counts when it comes to who occupies the White House.

If the popular vote decided things here's who we'd have gotten instead of who we actually got:

1824: Andrew Jackson
1876: Samuel J. Tilden
1888: Grover Cleveland
2000: Al Gore
2016: Hillary Clinton

 

[Zachowon]

Now.
What if a state decertifies thier electors vote?

 

[Sailor.X]

All this means is we need a new Amendment to the Constitution that covers what to do in case of Election Fraud on the National level. Aka for the Potus and Congress seats.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Now.
What if a state decertifies thier electors vote?

The closest thing we have to precedent for that is the 1876 election where the Democrats and Republicans did some horse-trading and awarded the Presidency to Hayes in exchange for the removal of all Federal troops from the south and an end to reconstruction.

It's unlikely they'll come to such an agreement this time. It probably goes to the Supreme Court, who, based on the past, will find a reason to declare it's not their problem and punt on the issue leaving the status quo in place.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Now.
What if a state decertifies thier electors vote?

Which is the question that would actually matter because I think that would nullify the ECs vote.

It would also be the mother of all clusterfucks.

The closest thing we have to precedent for that is the 1876 election where the Democrats and Republicans did some horse-trading and awarded the Presidency to Hayes in exchange for the removal of all Federal troops from the south and an end to reconstruction.

It's unlikely they'll come to such an agreement this time. It probably goes to the Supreme Court, who, based on the past, will find a reason to declare it's not their problem and punt on the issue leaving the status quo in place.

Oh God if they did that I could actually see the crazier fuckers on the AF succeeding in calling a new continental congress.

That could lead to...interesting things.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Just what the title says.

How would that impact the current administration...the House...the Senate...all the legislation and executive orders?

It's a complete legal grey area and would spark an enormous Constitutional crisis. Remember that the risk of a Constitutional crisis was openly stated to be part of why SCOTUS chose to take a very minimal, hands-as-off-as-possible approach to the legitimacy of the 2000 Presidential elections, as opposed to ordering a full audit/investigation in order to *decisively* settle the issue, and that was a *lot* less of a grey zone than what OP proposes here because it was disputed before the election was certified, much less a President actually put in office.

The idea that such a finding would automatically moot the election or in some way nullify the decisions made by the sitting President. . . well, from a moral perspective it certainly would, but not a legal one. Continuity of government is a huge deal in the Western model of governance, to the point where such nullification wasn't even applied to the literal Nazis -- the post-WWII occupation government officially held that regardless of having been deposed by force, the Nazis had absolutely been the legitimate government of Germany and all of the laws and regulations they passed remained in legal effect until and unless explicitly repealed or amended just like any other law.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

You become President when you get the required number of Electoral College votes, Congress certifies the Electoral College vote, and you are then sworn in.

It doesn't matter if the elections that selected the electors to the EC were fraudulent, Congress certified them as valid and that is that.

Biden would be the legal President and remain so until he was removed from office, resigned, or his term ran out.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

You become President when you get the required number of Electoral College votes, Congress certifies the Electoral College vote, and you are then sworn in.

It doesn't matter if the elections that selected the electors to the EC were fraudulent, Congress certified them as valid and that is that.

Biden would be the legal President and remain so until he was removed from office, resigned, or his term ran out.

As much as I hate to say it, yes. Biden isn't the president now because without question he won the presidency legitimately or illegitimately it's because the EC made him president and they were always going to ratify him because otherwise would signal their deaths or end their careers.

Literally the only timelines that involve Biden not reaching the presidency involves 'the unspeakable', him stepping down or getting physically removed from power by the Military and whatever this 'proof' is that proves rigging did indeed happen and Biden knowingly was involved would have to beyond irrefutable to even convince military leaders to attempt the later of those options.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

It wouldn't be the military. It would be a massed civilian uprising assuming anything happens at all.

There's no scenario where the US military in its current state defends the American people against tyranny. They would happily side with their welfare pimps unless said pimps shit the bed so hard that there was no conceivable way they could justify shooting at cities.

We saw this during the BLM rebellion when the Nat guard fired on homes in the suburbs in numerous states and bowed before communist scum.

Afghanistan might have changed that but it doesn't fit in with OP's stipulations so yeah the Military is sitting it out or siding with the usurper. Back on topic though.

I do wonder what would happen to the EC people in that case though? Because they would have knowingly voted in a guy they knew stole an election.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

We saw this during the BLM rebellion when the Nat guard fired on homes in the suburbs in numerous states and bowed before communist scum.

When did the National Guard fire into civilian homes? In what suburbs did this happen?

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

When did the National Guard fire into civilian homes? In what suburbs did this happen?

During the BLM riots and in areas Chicago. Detroit and I forget the other cities....Minneapolis probably

People were willing the weekend warriors shouting LIGHT EM UP and cutting loose.

 

[Zachowon]

But they never did.
In fact, most times when the Nat guard were invivlee, the more violent rioters were not near the.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

During the BLM riots and in areas Chicago. Detroit and I forget the other cities....Minneapolis probably

People were willing the weekend warriors shouting LIGHT EM UP and cutting loose.

You're going to need evidence to support your claim on this.

 

[Zachowon]

Didn't Trump say he wanted the Guard to open fire and Milley said no?

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

You're going to need evidence to support your claim on this.

The evidence was posted in the riot thread last year. I don't feel like sifting through a year of content here and on my discord because moderate right wingers are still convinced your armed forces are loyal to anyone but the welfare state.

The communists have purged all the patriots.

Didn't Trump say he wanted the Guard to open fire and Milley said no?

In DC against the people trying to burn the church

 

[Zachowon]

The evidence was posted in the riot thread last year. I don't feel like sifting through a year of content here and on my discord because moderate right wingers are still convinced your armed forces are loyal to anyone but the welfare state.

The communists have purged all the patriots.



In DC against the people trying to burn the church

They never opened fire on the people.
Either way, because it will end with the gloves coming off and BLM/ANTIFA Attackikg soldiers