What if Germany, Italy, and Japan & overseas territories of Jan 1936 are ISOT'ed to Jan 1926?

raharris1973

Well-known member
What if Germany, Italy, and Japan & overseas territories of Jan 1936 are ISOT'ed to Jan 1926?

For Germany, this means Nazi Germany replaces all of Weimar Germany, except for the Rhineland zones, still occupied by France, Belgium, and possibly Britain. Note: France and Belgium had already withdrawn from the Ruhr by August 1925, so the Nazis get that, and the western powers and Germany had also signed the Locarno Pact, accepting Rhineland as ultimately German.

For Italy, this means Italy, Libya, Eritrea, Somalia and the already occupied parts of Ethiopia.

For Japan, it means its imperial territories as of the 1926-1931 era (Ryukyus, Kuriles, South Sakhalin, Bonins, Taiwan, Korea, Port Arthur, Micronesian mandate, SMR railway zone) plus Manchukuo.

What happens from there? How do the democratic countries of the world react to the sudden appearance of a Germany, Italy, and Japan displaying militant attitudes, with Germany and Japan having withdrawn from the League of Nations. Indeed, Italy is the most egregious of the three, actively conquering Ethiopia at the moment. But Japan isn't far behind, suddenly occupying all of Manchuria, to the outrage of both the Beiyang Republic and the KMT regime of Guangzhou. How does the USSR react?
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
I suspect that the British are going to try to appease Germany while the French are on the one hand going to try getting on the British government's good side while on the other hand make whatever secret contacts they can with both the Americans and the Soviets in the hope of creating an anti-Nazi alliance that will also subsequently include both Britain and France's Eastern European allies. Mussolini is still likely to be a black sheep due to his invasion of Ethiopia. Americans are likely to be uninterested in any new European alliances, but the Soviets might be interested. This was pre-Stalin, so a bit more hope. Could this actually be enough to prevent Stalin's rise to power in the Soviet Union, though?
 

ATP

Well-known member
What if Germany, Italy, and Japan & overseas territories of Jan 1936 are ISOT'ed to Jan 1926?

For Germany, this means Nazi Germany replaces all of Weimar Germany, except for the Rhineland zones, still occupied by France, Belgium, and possibly Britain. Note: France and Belgium had already withdrawn from the Ruhr by August 1925, so the Nazis get that, and the western powers and Germany had also signed the Locarno Pact, accepting Rhineland as ultimately German.

For Italy, this means Italy, Libya, Eritrea, Somalia and the already occupied parts of Ethiopia.

For Japan, it means its imperial territories as of the 1926-1931 era (Ryukyus, Kuriles, South Sakhalin, Bonins, Taiwan, Korea, Port Arthur, Micronesian mandate, SMR railway zone) plus Manchukuo.

What happens from there? How do the democratic countries of the world react to the sudden appearance of a Germany, Italy, and Japan displaying militant attitudes, with Germany and Japan having withdrawn from the League of Nations. Indeed, Italy is the most egregious of the three, actively conquering Ethiopia at the moment. But Japan isn't far behind, suddenly occupying all of Manchuria, to the outrage of both the Beiyang Republic and the KMT regime of Guangzhou. How does the USSR react?

Let say - if France do not attack germans/they still could crush them easily/ then Hitler have time to made his army ready for war in 1932 - and win easily.
Even Italians would win over England in Africa in this scenario,and Japan could beat soviets if go with Hitler.

So,either Hitler crushed in 1926 by frogs,or soviets crushed in 1932 with German United Europe as result.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Or,to be more precise:
1.France do not attack germans,Hitler take Europe in 1932 with Italy,Japan take Siberia.

2.France crush germans in 1926 and take their technology,Italy do not help them.Stronger France,but they do not unite Europe.
Japan still take Siberia.
England and FDR try to provoke war,but to no avail.

3.France crush germans with Italian help,they are 2 bigger powers in Europe.Japan still take Siberia.
England and FDR do not manage to provoke war.

4.France crush germans,England do not like that and manage to provoke war with soviets and german guerillas as allies.Nobody win,but germans are even more crushed.

5.France crush war,Japan take Siberia,FDR provoke war with Japan.USA fleet lost badly,and people do not want war.Nothing change/Japan could take Dutch India/
 

Buba

A total creep
Neither are the ISOTs.
German military is in shambles, just began to expand and rearm.
Italy - jumped into Abissynia, is using WWI kit stolen from A-H, and the navy is down to two battleships - either just rebuilt or two WWI clunkers.
Japan is in best shape but is, as we know, weak. And not sustainable in the long run.

Meh, I'd say that the French are in better shape in 1926 than ten years later. Institutional knowledge not yet lost, veteran reservists, shitloads of weapons (it was the Arsenal of Democracy in WWI, remember?) which are still close to leading edge, military not yet gutted by years of underfunding and 12 month Military Service. The Armee de Terre can walk into Germany blasting away the opposition.

In the Soviet Union, once knowledge filters into it, I'd expect coups and counter coups of the usual suspects.
 
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Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Neither are the ISOTs.
German military is in shambles, just began to expand and rearm.
Italy - jumped into Abissynia, is using WWI kit stolen from A-H, and the navy is down to two battleships - either just rebuilt or two WWI clunkers.
Japan is in best shape but is, as we know, weak. And not sustainable in the long run.

Meh, I'd say that the French are in better shape in 1926 than ten years later. Institutional knowledge not yet lost, veteran reservists, shitloads of weapons (it was the Arsenal of Democracy in WWI, remember?) which are still close to leading edge, military not yet gutted by years of underfunding and 12 month Military Service. The Armee de Terre can walk into Germany blasting away the opposition.

In the Soviet Union, once knowledge filters into it, I'd expect coups and counter coups of the usual suspects.


Within three years the Wehrmacht blitzed across Poland and France OTL, Their military is far better off than any of the competition. Also the red army this early on is utterly worthless like 5 years earlier they had just gotten their asses handed to them by Poland.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Germany, Italy and Japan redraw the maps the way they want since no one is remotely ready for war at this point in time.

Germans in 1936 had 10 dyvisions.France,Czech or Poland would conqer them in weeks.If they wonted.
So - only problem is if France,Czech and Poland from 1926 would decide to crush germans,or not.

If they attack,germans would be crushed and their inventions would go to victor.If not,germans would conqer Europe in 1932.
It is matter of political Will,not power.
 

Buba

A total creep
If they attack,germans would be crushed and their inventions would go to victor.If not,germans would conqer Europe in 1932.
If not crushed in 1926 Hitler, with mid '30s tech, will go on conquest spree in '28 and '29. And will be difficult to stop.
 

ATP

Well-known member
If not crushed in 1926 Hitler, with mid '30s tech, will go on conquest spree in '28 and '29. And will be difficult to stop.
No,he planned war after 1942.Here,other countries would be weaker - so,1932 probably.Certainly not before 1930.
But,onece he start,nobody could stop him.
German Europe in 1935.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Within three years the Wehrmacht blitzed across Poland and France OTL, Their military is far better off than any of the competition. Also the red army this early on is utterly worthless like 5 years earlier they had just gotten their asses handed to them by Poland.

Does this mean that Nazi Germany's Lebensraum wet dream actually has a realistic chance of becoming reality at this specific point in time?
 

ATP

Well-known member
Does this mean that Nazi Germany's Lebensraum wet dream actually has a realistic chance of becoming reality at this specific point in time?
If they attack Poland in 1931 with 1941 technology? yes,Europe is theirs in 3-4 years.Nobody could stop them,even if advanced Italy and Japan joined their enemies for some reason.
 

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