Warship Appreciation Thread

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
Another Victim of the various Clinton defense cuts was the refueling of a fair few LA class subs and at the very least the Virginia and possibly the California class crusiers which would have been modernized a fair bit as well. Oh and restarting B-2 production to increase the fleet to around 50 aircraft and since R@D was paid for they would have only cost around 40% per bird as compared to the previous production run. And of course the planned F-22 production run got cut back putting us on the path to eventually having less than 200 made
It isn't entirely Clinton's idea, those defense cuts. The real problem was that the USSR fell apart and there wasn't any big enemy to go up against. Remember China back then wasn't the China of today, as outsourcing just started to give China the funds needed to modernize everything back then and those take time to ramp up.

With no real enemy to fight, Congress started to go back to its usual shenanigans of withholding funds from the military.
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
With no real enemy to fight, Congress started to go back to its usual shenanigans of withholding funds from the military.

It's probably my inner Roman speaking, but surely ensuring the supremacy of the United States is worth the cash? Military might is the final and only real arbiter of a nation's strength, after all.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
It's probably my inner Roman speaking, but surely ensuring the supremacy of the United States is worth the cash? Military might is the final and only real arbiter of a nation's strength, after all.
Here's the thing, military budgets are tied to economic capacity. A fun little thing that the GOP has forgotten is that you are better off simply investing in the economy (and no, tax cuts aren't investing into the economy, we're talking shit like infrastructure here) than just add more funds when it comes to military budgets. So the line of thought would be to cut some military programs, invest in the economy, and then use that money to grow military funding while keeping the percentage the same. After that, simply keep investing in the economy and no one will call you out for increasing the military budget... because while the percentage stays the same, the actual dollars keep rising with the increased intake.

It also didn't help that the entire 'End of History' thing was being rampant at the time...
 

Tiamat

I've seen the future...
It also didn't help that the entire 'End of History' thing was being rampant at the time...


Dear God, I remember that. I was in the USAF in the 90's in Europe, and everyone was cheering "History's gone!" when Clinton was elected POTUS and everyone naively assumed the world would be a bright shining utopia going forward, they bought that selling point hook, line and sinker, and woe to anyone who was stuck in "Old ways of thinking" because history never repeats itself, or rhymes for that matter...right??? 🤬 I hate to say it, but my fellow Americans are piss-poor when it comes to actually reading up on history and learning from it.

They should have stopped to have a conversation with the Poles, Czechs, and Hungarians. There's a reason they were so eager to join NATO once Ivan pulled up stakes and went home, and as Aaron Fox noted, nobody was paying enough attention to the Chinese.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
Dear God, I remember that. I was in the USAF in the 90's in Europe, and everyone was cheering "History's gone!" when Clinton was elected POTUS and everyone naively assumed the world would be a bright shining utopia going forward, they bought that selling point hook, line and sinker, and woe to anyone who was stuck in "Old ways of thinking" because history never repeats itself, or rhymes for that matter...right??? 🤬 I hate to say it, but my fellow Americans are piss-poor when it comes to actually reading up on history and learning from it.
No, it was pushed by a few idiots and it became a memetic hazard. History tells us that simply having constantly funding the military without the needed civilian economy is a recipe for disaster. While the US economy was better at growing than the Soviet economy, the growth wasn't as large as what people would think it was, especially after the '70s when companies started automation and outsourcing to cut the unions -and thus workers in general- out of the economy.

The sad reality is, a sustainable military is only as large as the tax base underneath it, and the GOP's crusade against taxes contracted that tax base...
They should have stopped to have a conversation with the Poles, Czechs, and Hungarians. There's a reason they were so eager to join NATO once Ivan pulled up stakes and went home, and as Aaron Fox noted, nobody was paying enough attention to the Chinese.
No, it must be noted that China was slotted in so they wouldn't get ideas, for history tells us that if a country can't get resources from trade, it will get it from conquest. China has a shitload of land that it considers it's own and its people aren't going to forget it any time soon.

Basically, turning China into the world's sweatshop is a way to keep China invested in the system that not only kept world wars from happening but also integrated China into the world economy.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
It isn't entirely Clinton's idea, those defense cuts. The real problem was that the USSR fell apart and there wasn't any big enemy to go up against. Remember China back then wasn't the China of today, as outsourcing just started to give China the funds needed to modernize everything back then and those take time to ramp up.

With no real enemy to fight, Congress started to go back to its usual shenanigans of withholding funds from the military.
And then to make things worse as China started to become a more clear threat to the US's interests the war on terror sucked a lot of money out of the budget and caused a lot more wear and tear on both men and equipment and also resulted in a lot of deferred maintenance
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Understatement of the century. We literally could have built every aircraft and ship and then some currently in the inventory with how much we've spent in the middle East since 2001
We would not be behind in development of weapons.
We are using one of the oldest MBTs out there.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
We would not be behind in development of weapons.
We are using one of the oldest MBTs out there.
To be fair with all the upgrades the M1 is still a decent tank and it's not like Leopard 2 is any younger either. Plus with the money freed up from not fighting everywhere we're finally scheduled to start development of a new tank. And we do have a boatload of development programs that are underway in all sorts of categories. Not to mention the fact that in a lot of cases waiting for technology to develop a bit will mean our stuff will be way better than most nations once it hits the field in bulk
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
An yet they still use T-72 and will continue to use it for a long time. Not to mention that T-80 is also older than Abrams and T-90 is basically T-72C, that got renamed due to bad press the T-72 got in Iraqi service. Armata is only entering the production.

On topic, a desperate attempt to save the ship by lightening the load

zuikaku10_usn_h73071.jpg
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
As I love the more bizarre designs, I present the Novgorod.

dQDOpzB.jpg


Some enterprising designer came up with the idea that a ship shaped like a bowl would maximize deck space. Why they needed so much deck space when most of it's unused isn't clear but maximize deck space it did, at the expense of... everything else. No really, this is a real ship, despite looking like something out of a poorly designed game or sci-fi setting.

Surprisingly she had a long and decent service life of close to 30 years. While legendarily one of the worst ships ever made, Novgorod actually had a (very) few advantages due to her odd shape. Because of her huge deck area relative to her diameter, she had a miniscule draft relative to the amount of armor she mounted. This was a big advantage given she was designed as a coastal defense monitor and could thus outfight just about anything that could be in the same waters.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
We would not be behind in development of weapons.
We are using one of the oldest MBTs out there.
I know for a fact we have an aircraft flying now that makes an F-22 look like a Tinker Toy. I saw that damn thing late night back in 1993. It came into the base. Landed Vertically on the tarmac. Got refueled and then took off again. Then it did something I never saw any other Aircraft do. It took off at a speed that makes an F-14 on full Afterburner look like it is standing still. It sounded like the sky was being ripped apart. We have some scary level of combat tech that is just not being shown to the publc.
 
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Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I know for a fact we have an aircraft flying now that makes an F-22 look like a Tinker Toy. I saw that damn thing late night back in 1993. It came into the base. Landed Vertically on the tarmac. Got refueled and then took off again. Then it did something I never saw any other Aircraft do. It took off at a speed that makes an F-14 on fuel Afterburner look like it is standing still. It sounded like the sky was being ripped apart. We have some scary level of combat tech that is just not being shown to the publc.
The Army is oddly enough, behind the rest of the branches when it comes to combat tech. They have gone through so many projects, mosthave failed and only caused prototypes compared to the Navy and Air force.

Though, the Army is finally investing in a VTOL copter.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
The Army is oddly enough, behind the rest of the branches when it comes to combat tech. They have gone through so many projects, mosthave failed and only caused prototypes compared to the Navy and Air force.

Though, the Army is finally investing in a VTOL copter.
Maybe the Power Armor project I have heard about will be adapted for full Army use. That would be good.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Maybe the Power Armor project I have heard about will be adapted for full Army use. That would be good.
That is about the best the Army has going.
They finally managed to get a new weapon system near its final without cancelling it and sticking with the M4.
We can only hope the NSGW contuines and gets chosen and sent out the next few years.
The Navy has a better track record with new combat tech then the army. Look at the railguns!

Thread tax:
Montana_Class.png

I wish this thing had been built.
It would be the second largets class of BS next to Yamamoto
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
That is about the best the Army has going.
They finally managed to get a new weapon system near its final without cancelling it and sticking with the M4.
We can only hope the NSGW contuines and gets chosen and sent out the next few years.
The Navy has a better track record with new combat tech then the army. Look at the railguns!

Thread tax:
Montana_Class.png

I wish this thing had been built.
It would be the second largets class of BS next to Yamamoto
Time to keep it real. Really Old!!!

USS_Olympia_2.jpg


The USS Olympia. Some 19th Century Old Navyness.
 

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