Warship Appreciation Thread
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Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
As I recall the Kitty Hawks were orginally meant to be just Kitty Hawk and Constellation but the cost overruns on Enterprise resulted in her five planned sisters being canceled and McNamara insisted on the next two carriers being conventionally powered to the point of persuading Congress to have the JFK reworked mid construction(screwed her up rather badly), this also resulted in America being a repeat Kitty Hawk. Its not a coincidence that Nimitz was laid down after McNamara left office.
Also fun fact the Forrestal and Saratoga were the last USN carriers to be laid down with a straight flight deck, they were modified mid constitution which helps explain the poor(and for that matter weird )placement of the port elevator on the Forrestal class(that and we really didn't have much experience with angled flight decks when they were redesigned, the experience wasincorporated into every new carrier design Kitty Hawk and onwards)
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Aaron Fox
Well-known member
McNamara wasn't the problem when it came to the US nuclear carriers, it was Congress (un)surprisingly enough. The Enterprise was -at the time- just stupid expensive and Congress then canceled the whole lot. It wasn't until the Enterprise simply kept showing the superiority of nuclear carriers of her size compared to conventional carriers that caused Congress to change their tune and allowed the Nimitz to be constructed (although, at the time of the Enterprise, there were other projects going on at the same time that ate a lot of the USN budget, like the SLBMs, SSBNs, and others).
McNamara might be an idiot and had horrible ideas at times, but he wasn't stupid. Remember, McNamara was the guy that kickstarted a lot of the projects that would become our armaments. Drones? They were kickstarted in the combat arena by McNamara. Exoskeletons? He was -last I've checked- one of the backers of the first projects to look into such tech back in Vietnam. McNamara's 'military ideology' of superior armaments, superior equipment, superior training is still used today...
McNamara might be an idiot and had horrible ideas at times, but he wasn't stupid. Remember, McNamara was the guy that kickstarted a lot of the projects that would become our armaments. Drones? They were kickstarted in the combat arena by McNamara. Exoskeletons? He was -last I've checked- one of the backers of the first projects to look into such tech back in Vietnam. McNamara's 'military ideology' of superior armaments, superior equipment, superior training is still used today...
The problem with McNamara, as I see it, was mostly that he drank his own Kool-Aid -- he was constitutionally incapable of conceding that any of his ideas weren't good, to the point where he would reject out of hand any evidence against his preferred position and/or fire anyone who dared contradict him.
Aaron Fox
Well-known member
Yeah, that was the problem. A problem that happens more than just military...
More like it is a requirement. Armored flight decks became a thing because of the aircraft they were carrying had loads well in excess of unarmored flight decks were capable of. So, it was less 'nice to have' and more 'we need it'. This is especially true with modern jet aircraft.Happily with later designs you can have both
Now my tax:
The Alaska class had a missile-era rework when Talos and kin were all the rage when the USN was starting out with SAM tech. The basic idea was that they took the USS Hawaii and then convert her to a large missile cruiser (CBG).
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Ironically this would have been easier to do if the Hawaii had been less completeYeah, that was the problem. A problem that happens more than just military...
More like it is a requirement. Armored flight decks became a thing because of the aircraft they were carrying had loads well in excess of unarmored flight decks were capable of. So, it was less 'nice to have' and more 'we need it'. This is especially true with modern jet aircraft.
Now my tax:
The Alaska class had a missile-era rework when Talos and kin were all the rage when the USN was starting out with SAM tech. The basic idea was that they took the USS Hawaii and then convert her to a large missile cruiser (CBG).
Aaron Fox
Well-known member
Eh, given that the other conversions more or less retained quite a bit despite similar problems (I mean a good half of the US missile cruiser fleet was literally conversions of WW2 designs!)? I wouldn't be that surprised that it would have been scrapped anyway. The Alaskas were a black sheep of the USN for all the right and wrong reasons. If anything, they had a similarity with the USS Long Beach... just with 12-inch guns and conventional boilers than missiles out the ass and a nuclear reactor. At the end of the day, it would likely be scrapped in the late 1970s when VLS started to get deployed unless the engineers got real creative.
Although the Long Beach is going to have the last laugh as -from what I've heard- some of the designs for next-gen missile cruisers are nuke powered (most likely to help with ABM work with future Pulse FELs, why waste fuel when you can power it all day long).
Vargas Fan
Head over heels in love :)
I'm not sure whether I've posted this yet, but here goes. This is a goddamn ugly vessel but there's just something I like about it. HMS Terror, an Erebus class monitor if I remember the class right. Nothing subtle about it.
The Udaloy class destroyer. Those forward box launchers look as if they're the same type as those on the Sovremmeny. Russian vessels always seem to have that 'cram as much onto the hull as possible' look.
The Udaloy class destroyer. Those forward box launchers look as if they're the same type as those on the Sovremmeny. Russian vessels always seem to have that 'cram as much onto the hull as possible' look.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
I've had the pleasure of being aboard her(along with every other intact vessel in the RN's Portsmouth museum including HMS Alliance which is a bit of trek from the main Dockyard but isn't that far from the Naval Ordnance Museum, man standing next to an 18" shell is a cool thing to do as is standing next the 15" guns at the entrance to the Imperial War Museum, I also got to tour the Belfast and Cavalier on that trip to the UK). Shame the engines are reproductions but they're still cool.
@Tyanna of Pentos hold your tongue! There is no such thing as 'overkill', there is 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'! Haven't you read your Schlock Mercenary?
For penancy you must gaze upon...
What sort of moribund maritime mutation is THAT?
And can you repost it in the Warships thread?
😋
Vargas Fan
Head over heels in love :)
From Facebook, someones scratch built model of CVE-26 USS Sangamon
Now that is damned impressive, someone has too much time on their hands
Now that is damned impressive, someone has too much time on their hands
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Honestly the USN probably could have use the Sagamons more in their original oiler format. Still a gorgeous model thoughFrom Facebook, someones scratch built model of CVE-26 USS Sangamon
Now that is damned impressive, someone has too much time on their hands
