Philosophy War, Genocide and Murder may predate Humanity.

Spartan303

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Osaul
So, I stumbled onto this little gem quite by accident. It turns out Chimpanzees can make war, commit murder and even genocide of another rival tribe. And yes I say Tribal as Chimpanzees do display behaviors t that while primitive can be considered tribal, though I understand this may be up for some debate. But the bottom line is this. They can plan and carry these things out and then celebrate them afterwards. It makes one wonder. Common theory is that Man predated war and that war, murder and Genocide were human inventions.

This though...may hint otherwise.



Another tidbit of information here. The BBC got documented footage of one tribe of Chimpanzees raiding the territory of another. This looks almost military in the way they move and operate before they spring an ambush.



This suggests that war, murder and death may predate Humanity instead of the reverse. What do you all think?
 

FriedCFour

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So, I stumbled onto this little gem quite by accident. It turns out Chimpanzees can make war, commit murder and even genocide of another rival tribe.
Jane Goodall recorded this back in the 70s, one tribe splitting in two, and then one of the split groups wiping out every male member of another tribe and taking their women, and then that tribe being pushed out of that territory by a third. For a while she was blamed for causing that somehow by interacting with them too much or because she used a feeder in order to attract them to observe them, until it was found more and more.

Interesting theory around the topic as well.

 

Spartan303

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I recall her saying that she really didn't wish it was so, but facts are facts, so she wrote about it and sent the footage. These days, footage would be probably destroyed before anyone could see it, as not to besmirch the prevailing image of the apes.


Why say that?
 
There’s a political element to naturalists and environmentalists where they want to portray nature as overall serene and it was thought that apes were extremely communal and peaceful.

no one with half an interest in real Science or literature would think that. One of the biggest ironies in Tarzan is that Sabor would have actually been much more likely to take in the infant tarzan than the apes would have because much like wolves big female cats seem to have somewhat of a protective instinct and if they accept the infant as a surrgote cub then said cat will be very nurturing while apes on the other hand are very territorial.

just goes to show many naturalist have watched too much Disney and not enough Animal Planet.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Why say that?
These days science is only allowed if it supports political correctness, anything that goes against it is decried as anti-science and shut down. Kind of like how anyone who doubts antromorphic global warming is shut out of the ''scientific community''. We live in a new age of Lysenkoism and Deutsche Physik, with politic fuelled idiocy still gathering steam
 

Scottty

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"May predate humanity"? That's going beyond the facts.
"Is not limited to humanity" would be better.

It is entirely possible that Chimpanzees developed such behaviours independently of humans.
Or copied them from humans.

The significant thing question, to my mind, is how animals without the power of speech would co-ordinate such actions.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
"May predate humanity"? That's going beyond the facts.
"Is not limited to humanity" would be better.

It is entirely possible that Chimpanzees developed such behaviours independently of humans.
Or copied them from humans.

The significant thing question, to my mind, is how animals without the power of speech would co-ordinate such actions.

First, speech =/= communication. Many social animals have communication that goes beyond speech. Chimpanzees, much like humans, can communicate with body signals and eye gaze.

Second, chimpanzees are capable of vocal communication. They certainly don't have a complex language like humans or dolphins do, but they are capable of about a couple dozen different vocal signals.
 

ATP

Well-known member
some ants could wipe other ants hive,the same goes for hornets/they could wipe out bee hive/.
In my book,it count as war and genocide.
 

Typhonis

Well-known member
Ants are definitely a group that can wage wars and wipe other colonies out. There are species of ants that will raid other ant nests to steal larva and pupae to use a slave labor in their own nest.

Nature red in tooth and claw is an adage as old as time.
 

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