Vegan Lies Thread

[Husky_Khan]

As a humorous aside...

I guess I never thought of Vegans as being prone to such animal based degeneracy... but I suppose it shouldn't be too surprising. Causation or Correlation?

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[Aldarion]

Veganism is flat out pants on head retarted.

We are obligate omnivores. It's not just that. We are also apex and keystone predators who hunt in packs and instinctively fight in ways the "bleeding hearts" would say isn't anywhere close to being called "fair".

We are also very large land mammal predators.

Leopard: ~68lbs
Wolf: ~95lbs
Cheetah: ~100lbs
Hyena: ~112lbs
Cougar: ~126lbs
Jaguar: ~165lbs
Avg. American Gal: 171lbs
Avg. American Guy: 198lbs

You're getting into "lions, tigers, and bears" when you go bigger than a woman

Not really. Modern humans are on average way, way overweight. Average paleolithic hunter would be some 150 lbs, I would think... they were shorter than today's people, and main advantage humans have over other animals are our brains and endurance. Chimpanzee is three times stronger than a human, because our muscles are set up for endurance and control more than strength.

 

[bintananth]

Not really. Modern humans are on average way, way overweight. Average paleolithic hunter would be some 150 lbs, I would think... they were shorter than today's people, and main advantage humans have over other animals are our brains and endurance. Chimpanzee is three times stronger than a human, because our muscles are set up for endurance and control more than strength.

"We don't fight like you do." and we're the only mammal species which can throw something with speed, distance, and precision.

Our first two hunting strateges are "chase it until it collapses" and "hurt it and then chase it until it collapses". That's also what wolves do. Unlike wolves, we don't have to do "up close and personal" to pull off the latter.

EDIT: Spud Webb (5'6", 133lbs listed*) is probably what a large paleolithic hunter was in terms of physique.

* those are NBA lies. I haven't met him but he's probably more like 5'4"-5'5" and not much heavier than my daughters were when they were eleven.

 

[Jormungandr]

"We don't fight like you do." and we're the only mammal species which can throw something with speed, distance, and precision.

Our first two hunting strateges are "chase it until it collapses" and "hurt it and then chase it until it collapses". That's also what wolves do. Unlike wolves, we don't have to do "up close and personal" to pull off the latter.

Yep! It's joked that we "walked" our prey to death, and that's pretty much true.

To an animal, we're this eldritch thing that doesn't stop following them until they simply drop from exhaustion.

And, IIRC, we technically are as strong as chimpanzees -- it's just our brains evolved to literally control how much strength we use to not tear ourselves apart.

All those cases where mothers lifted cars off their kids? Yeah, that's basically always from an override of that mechanism, not just adrenaline.

 

[bintananth]

And, IIRC, we technically are as strong as chimpanzees -- it's just our brains evolved to literally control how much strength we use to not tear ourselves apart.

Sorta. Our fast-twitch/slow-twitch muscle ratios are pretty much "flip the numbers to get close to the right ones" when compared to those of a Chimpanzee.

Science | AAAS

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[colorles]

Yep! It's joked that we "walked" our prey to death, and that's pretty much true.

To an animal, we're this eldritch thing that doesn't stop following them until they simply drop from exhaustion.

And, IIRC, we technically are as strong as chimpanzees -- it's just our brains evolved to literally control how much strength we use to not tear ourselves apart.

All those cases where mothers lifted cars off their kids? Yeah, that's basically always from an override of that mechanism, not just adrenaline.

Humans are pound for pound not as strong as chimpanzees. And no, it's not because of how we "control how much strength we use". It is because the way a chimanzee's frame is, compared to a humans. Their long torso's, powerful backs, and very long arms give them a mechanical, leverage advantage over humans. Bones, tendons, and attachments equate to leverage - muscles and type of muscle fibers are only secondary.

With that said, there is quite a bit of diversity in human frame structures - some people (and dare i say, some groups of people) are naturally much stronger and more athletic than others.

Not really. Modern humans are on average way, way overweight. Average paleolithic hunter would be some 150 lbs, I would think... they were shorter than today's people, and main advantage humans have over other animals are our brains and endurance. Chimpanzee is three times stronger than a human, because our muscles are set up for endurance and control more than strength.

Not even getting into the average sizes of paleolithic hunters. However, the natives of the northern American plains were said to be the largest men on earth in the 1800s. The men averaged roughly 5'11 inches in height with solid frames and, I would reckon, were in trim, athletic running shape at anywhere from 155 to 185 pounds. Some taller and larger framed men could have weighed more - they had the hearty diet to grow larger in frame and be healthy at larger frames and keep at a healthy weight


The average American man, today? Well - and this isn't a widely discussed thought - but there really is no "average American size", given that, say, men of German/Dutch/Scandinavian ancestry from the mid-west, are going to be considerably taller on average than, say, men of Guatemalan ancestry. A big gap there, I know, but genetics is everything. Nevertheless, a 5'5'' man in trim, athletic running shape, assuming he has a normal frame (not overly robust, nor overly flimsy), will probably weigh anywhere from 125 to 135 pounds. A 5'10'' man of the same frame type? probably anywhere from 145 to 165 pounds

Humans are big - but not anywhere near as big as the overweight "averages" of modern sedentary humans suggest. Not to mention most people lie about their heights, always measure with shoes on, and round up.

EDIT: Here is what a 6'5'' inch man (Chuck Connors) looks like when in trim, athletic running shape - without excess muscle or fat - being listed at weighing 190 pounds during his playing career

Here is Max Baer (6'2''), listed at 208 pounds for most of his career

 

[bintananth]

The average American man, today? Well - and this isn't a widely discussed thought - but there really is no "average American size", given that, say, men of German/Dutch/Scandinavian ancestry from the mid-west, are going to be considerably taller on average than, say, men of Guatemalan ancestry. A big gap there, I know, but genetics is everything. Nevertheless, a 5'5'' man in trim, athletic running shape, assuming he has a normal frame (not overly robust, nor overly flimsy), will probably weigh anywhere from 125 to 135 pounds. A 5'10'' man of the same frame type? probably anywhere from 145 to 165 pounds

Humans are big - but not anywhere near as big as the overweight "averages" of modern sedentary humans suggest. Not to mention most people lie about their heights, always measure with shoes on, and round up.

Hmm ... I am 5'11" barefoot. When I got put on a scale a few days after my left big toe was amputated last April the scale returned 189lbs and I told the nurse "that's about right".

 

[S'task]

The thing to remember is: animals don't know humans tend to be weak for our size to comparable weight animals. They don't understand all this stuff about muscle variation or leverage advantages. What they do understand is relative size, and that anything that is the same relative size as them has a decent chance of hurting them if they fight or hunt them.

Also bear in mind how animal sight works. Even for obligate predator the primary field of view is horizontal, not vertical. Things that strain the vertical frame of view tend to make animals very nervous and cause them to react fearfully due to them then overestimating the size of the animal in question.

Consider this... that 600 lb tiger? How TALL is it? It shoulder might come up to a human's hip. Maybe a bit higher, but not really. To the vast bulk of animals humans are some of the tallest creatures around, and this includes creatures like chimps, who tend to slouch over and never truly walk upright.

What this all combines to is that other apex predators tend to be scared of humans since we register as equal in size to them while also hitting on a certain "eldritch" quality due to our height. Of note, this is also why certain animals, when trying to frighten other creatures away, will tend to rear up on their back legs and stand up. Its to make themselves look bigger and more intimidating. Consider that, to other animals, humans are ALWAYS in the "intimidating presence" pose.

Add on our stamina that is only (barely) matched by two other species (both of which humans then domesticated and teamed up with), our raw intelligence to plan, our ability to make tools, and the ability to accurate calculate trajectories INTUITIVELY* and then apply that to objects both thrown and launched...

We're fundamentally an outside context problem to most predators. There's a reason mammalian apex predators long ago gave up actively preying on humans and it is usually only the sick or infirm that will risk it. Healthy apex predators don't want to call down the hellfire humans bring on them when we find out they've gone mankiller. For we stop at nothing once threatened and we don't come alone, we bring our fellow predatory allies with us whom are as dedicated to the hunt as we are.

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* Seriously people, the fact humans can calculate trajectories intuitively is kinda insane when you look into the actual MATH and PHYSICS involved in it. Trajectory calculations are a large part of fucking ROCKET SCIENCE for goodness sake... it's arguably a genuine superpower as far as the animal world is concerned, and we use it mostly for playing GAMES these days.

 

[Sailor.X]

The thing to remember is: animals don't know humans tend to be weak for our size to comparable weight animals. They don't understand all this stuff about muscle variation or leverage advantages. What they do understand is relative size, and that anything that is the same relative size as them has a decent chance of hurting them if they fight or hunt them.

Also bear in mind how animal sight works. Even for obligate predator the primary field of view is horizontal, not vertical. Things that strain the vertical frame of view tend to make animals very nervous and cause them to react fearfully due to them then overestimating the size of the animal in question.

Consider this... that 600 lb tiger? How TALL is it? It shoulder might come up to a human's hip. Maybe a bit higher, but not really. To the vast bulk of animals humans are some of the tallest creatures around, and this includes creatures like chimps, who tend to slouch over and never truly walk upright.

What this all combines to is that other apex predators tend to be scared of humans since we register as equal in size to them while also hitting on a certain "eldritch" quality due to our height. Of note, this is also why certain animals, when trying to frighten other creatures away, will tend to rear up on their back legs and stand up. Its to make themselves look bigger and more intimidating. Consider that, to other animals, humans are ALWAYS in the "intimidating presence" pose.

Add on our stamina that is only (barely) matched by two other species (both of which humans then domesticated and teamed up with), our raw intelligence to plan, our ability to make tools, and the ability to accurate calculate trajectories INTUITIVELY* and then apply that to objects both thrown and launched...

We're fundamentally an outside context problem to most predators. There's a reason mammalian apex predators long ago gave up actively preying on humans and it is usually only the sick or infirm that will risk it. Healthy apex predators don't want to call down the hellfire humans bring on them when we find out they've gone mankiller. For we stop at nothing once threatened and we don't come alone, we bring our fellow predatory allies with us whom are as dedicated to the hunt as we are.

----------------
* Seriously people, the fact humans can calculate trajectories intuitively is kinda insane when you look into the actual MATH and PHYSICS involved in it. Trajectory calculations are a large part of fucking ROCKET SCIENCE for goodness sake... it's arguably a genuine superpower as far as the animal world is concerned, and we use it mostly for playing GAMES these days.

It explains why a few times I have made an aggressive dog back down. I reared up to my full height and actually Roared. Granted Roaring is very difficult and does hurt the throat. But it can be done. The expression on that dogs face went to fear really quick. The roar sounded like the T Rex from Jurassic Park and I needed a cough drop afterwards.

 

[bintananth]

It explains why a few times I have made an aggressive dog back down. I reared up to my full height and actually Roared. Granted Roaring is very difficult and does hurt the throat. But it can be done. The expression on that dogs face went to fear really quick. The roar sounded like the T Rex from Jurassic Park and I needed a cough drop afterwards.

My wife is a master at this. She doesn't roar. Princess growels when she's upset with the occasional hiss tossed in. It's hilarious to watch at "pass the popcorn" levels of funny.

 

[DarthOne]

The True Impact Of Vegan (Plastic) Leather - Cheddar Explains

 

[Stargazer]

Not really. Modern humans are on average way, way overweight. Average paleolithic hunter would be some 150 lbs, I would think... they were shorter than today's people, and main advantage humans have over other animals are our brains and endurance. Chimpanzee is three times stronger than a human, because our muscles are set up for endurance and control more than strength.

Also consider how chimpanzees use their muscle, from an anatomical perspective. All that hanging and climbing. Their upper body strength, their grip strength, is much greater. And they can easily use that strength in violent confrontations.

Humans, by comparison, aren't so much into the hanging and climbing. More into walking and running. Our lower bodies are much more developed - our quads, hamstrings, glutes. There's a lot of power in our legs. But that power isn't so easy to apply offensively. Our feet aren't really made to claw or grip anything. But we can run. We can also use that lower body strength to push. Now if we could just find a way to focus that strength from pushing...

So, you're not going to win at arm wrestling with a chimp. A human's best physical advantage against a chimp is to use our legs to gtf away from the chimp until we can find or make a tool, something pointy which we can then push into the chimp. With lethal effect.