Vegan Lies Thread
- Thread starter Aldarion
- Start date
Veganism is...interesting.
The moral reasons for veganism are arbitrary and self-defeating. If you think it's always wrong to kill any animal life of species other than your own, and thus wrong to kill such life for food, your morality is absurd. Humans have been doing that for thousands of years. There are animal species that do nothing but eat other animals. Are they all evil? Are you petitioning to ban the use of cars so no one runs over squirrels? To ban windmill power generation so no birds get whacked? The real reason behind this isn't that they care about animals, it's that they hate humanity and don't think we deserve to exist in the first place.
Now, you can think killing animals for food is ok per se, but be critical of the modern livestock industry for how it treats animals before slaughtering them. On this vegans have more of a point. I can agree that we should do our best to treat animals humanely, that we have a moral duty not to cause them unnecessary suffering. That's fine. That doesn't require abandoning animal products entirely, though. Just choose brands you know treat animals more to your standard of humanity.
However - there are a lot of people in the world. A lot of mouths to feed. A lot of people with not a lot of money. And no, you can't just feed people with plant products (more on that in a bit). It's a good thing that we've gotten so good at raising animals to make animal products regularly affordable and available. If you can afford more ethically raised animal products, you're probably upper and middle class, living in a rich country that subsidizes that kind of thing. Judging lower class people, and people of other countries, for buying animal products that aren't up to your standards is rich upper class elitism, plain and simple.
Now what about the health reasons for going vegan? It's true that a person who switches to vegan will see health improvements - if they're switching from the typical "American" diet. The typical diet nowadays, sadly, consists of a lot of ultra processed high calorie, highly palatable food. There's not enough fruits and vegetables in that diet to begin with. Switching to vegan from that will probably cut down on ultra processed food, leading to less overeating and a lower calorie intake. You'll get more fiber, more micronutrients.
However, you can get all those benefits without going vegan, and going vegan has its own downsides. If you consciously add more fruits and vegetables to your diet, avoid ultra processed food and stick to lean meats, you're already on a pretty good track. On the other hand, going vegan leads to a deficiency in protein, and B vitamins. To be healthy as a vegan, you have to supplement. If supplementing a diet is required to be healthy, can the diet itself really be said to be healthy? There's also the matter that plant -based meat substitutes are ultra processed by nature, and negate that benefit if you can't go without eating something like meat.
Overall, the moral reasons to go vegan are kind of elitist at best and absurd at worst. And the health reasons are pretty much bunk.
The moral reasons for veganism are arbitrary and self-defeating. If you think it's always wrong to kill any animal life of species other than your own, and thus wrong to kill such life for food, your morality is absurd. Humans have been doing that for thousands of years. There are animal species that do nothing but eat other animals. Are they all evil? Are you petitioning to ban the use of cars so no one runs over squirrels? To ban windmill power generation so no birds get whacked? The real reason behind this isn't that they care about animals, it's that they hate humanity and don't think we deserve to exist in the first place.
Now, you can think killing animals for food is ok per se, but be critical of the modern livestock industry for how it treats animals before slaughtering them. On this vegans have more of a point. I can agree that we should do our best to treat animals humanely, that we have a moral duty not to cause them unnecessary suffering. That's fine. That doesn't require abandoning animal products entirely, though. Just choose brands you know treat animals more to your standard of humanity.
However - there are a lot of people in the world. A lot of mouths to feed. A lot of people with not a lot of money. And no, you can't just feed people with plant products (more on that in a bit). It's a good thing that we've gotten so good at raising animals to make animal products regularly affordable and available. If you can afford more ethically raised animal products, you're probably upper and middle class, living in a rich country that subsidizes that kind of thing. Judging lower class people, and people of other countries, for buying animal products that aren't up to your standards is rich upper class elitism, plain and simple.
Now what about the health reasons for going vegan? It's true that a person who switches to vegan will see health improvements - if they're switching from the typical "American" diet. The typical diet nowadays, sadly, consists of a lot of ultra processed high calorie, highly palatable food. There's not enough fruits and vegetables in that diet to begin with. Switching to vegan from that will probably cut down on ultra processed food, leading to less overeating and a lower calorie intake. You'll get more fiber, more micronutrients.
However, you can get all those benefits without going vegan, and going vegan has its own downsides. If you consciously add more fruits and vegetables to your diet, avoid ultra processed food and stick to lean meats, you're already on a pretty good track. On the other hand, going vegan leads to a deficiency in protein, and B vitamins. To be healthy as a vegan, you have to supplement. If supplementing a diet is required to be healthy, can the diet itself really be said to be healthy? There's also the matter that plant -based meat substitutes are ultra processed by nature, and negate that benefit if you can't go without eating something like meat.
Overall, the moral reasons to go vegan are kind of elitist at best and absurd at worst. And the health reasons are pretty much bunk.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Veganism is basically a religion.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
More of a cult, considering how aggressive they tend to be.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
What is cult but a small scale religion?
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Eh, cult differs from religion in that it is far more aggressive, more restrictive and more focused on temporal things. Early Islam for example was a cult.
But yeah, the only major difference between a cult and a religion is that cult is countercultural, whereas religion is a cult that has become large enough to determine culture.
There's a few different ways to define "cult", and really talking about it would call for a whole other thread lol.
But I can see the psychological similarity of veganism to religious cults. It taps into that desire for moral fanaticism at the expense of reason.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
).
Gastric acid level of humans must decrease in the future
Proton pump inhibitors strongly inhibit gastric acid production, but digestion problems do not generally arise. We can intake almost ordinary food even after total gastrectomy. Small intestine itself can digest and absorb food using various digestive ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Lie: Vegan Diets save animal lives.
carnivoreaurelius.com
Almond milk kills hideous numbers of bees compared to the non-killed single cow that can supply you with actual milk. Avacados too, monoculture is horribly destructive to bees as it wrecks their ability to balance their diet with different plants. Meanwhile pesticides kill billions of mice, every pass of the plow rips apart thousands of moles, voles, gophers, and squirrels, and tens of billions of insects.
Vegans fought back against the science, but it turns out they're leftists, and can't meme.
Veganism Kills More Animals Than the Carnivore Diet
Inconvenient truth for vegans: The vegan diet kills at least 25x more animals than a carnivore diet. It's time to wake up.
carnivoreaurelius.com
Almond milk kills hideous numbers of bees compared to the non-killed single cow that can supply you with actual milk. Avacados too, monoculture is horribly destructive to bees as it wrecks their ability to balance their diet with different plants. Meanwhile pesticides kill billions of mice, every pass of the plow rips apart thousands of moles, voles, gophers, and squirrels, and tens of billions of insects.
Vegans fought back against the science, but it turns out they're leftists, and can't meme.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Some in-depth rebuttals of vegan claims:
ShadowsOfParadox
Well-known member
I think my "favorite" Vegan Lie is "This obligate carnivore I bought as a pet is totally healthy on this vegan diet!"
Inevitably, there's a picture of the pet and they are skin and bones.
Inevitably, there's a picture of the pet and they are skin and bones.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
If they were caught in the US they'd be facing a long time in prison.
bintananth
behind a desk
Veganism is flat out pants on head retarted.
We are obligate omnivores. It's not just that. We are also apex and keystone predators who hunt in packs and instinctively fight in ways the "bleeding hearts" would say isn't anywhere close to being called "fair".
We are also very large land mammal predators.
Leopard: ~68lbs
Wolf: ~95lbs
Cheetah: ~100lbs
Hyena: ~112lbs
Cougar: ~126lbs
Jaguar: ~165lbs
Avg. American Gal: 171lbs
Avg. American Guy: 198lbs
You're getting into "lions, tigers, and bears" when you go bigger than a woman
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
You have to go much bigger though.
Average adult male lion is 420 lbs.
Adult male tiger? Rages from human sized to 600 lbs, so also about 400 lbs.
Male bears are 400 to 1200.
You can't really compare humans to the average of any of those. No naturally heavy human is going to get much above 300, and that's pushing it.
bintananth
behind a desk
It depends on the (sub)species ...
A large male Sun Bear weighs about 50lbs less than I do. The smallest lionesses and tigresses are going think twice before picking a 1-on-1 fight with a human because an adult might be able to say "I'm bigger than you" without exaggerating.
There's a reason why people say 99 out of 100 vegans are batshit cultist stereotypes.
Sane outliers do exist, but when you think of "vegan"? Yeah, the stereotype is almost always the truth.
Avoid these nuts when possible.
Sane outliers do exist, but when you think of "vegan"? Yeah, the stereotype is almost always the truth.
Avoid these nuts when possible.
bintananth
behind a desk
The sane outliers either practice a religion which encourages a vegetarian diet or just don't like the taste of meat.
They probably won't refuse a triple cheeseburger when they're starving for much the same reason a Muslim won't turn down beer when there's no clean water nearby: necessity
While your points are valid, the average American man is not 198 pounds in shape. And definitely not the kind of shape a paleolithic hunter would be in. Nevertheless, your points still stand and humans are large, tribal, pack hunting animals.