US Army Will Soon Have Female Tankers and Grunts

Shipmaster Sane

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Until they make a universal physical fitness test that doesn't wave away requirements for pushups, situps and running speed that others holding such positions must maintain, this is just patronizing at the most basic and broad sense of the word (hehee 'broad').

Combat arms should be open to women. Those women should meet the same standards as the men in those arms. A potential overhaul to the standards in general that actually makes the physical fitness testing more applicable to positions and what might need done seems like it might be worthwhile, but is something I've just heard bandied about and can't speak to in particular but makes sense.
This coming from both principled and pragmatic source, as well. Equal standards are the only just ones here in principle. Pragmatically? It's not a sports competition where splitting into male and female is applicable or warranted to make for competition between groups, it's a team sport where everyone's supposed to be pulling together.
This is exactly the same as banning women from combat roles. Women cannot perform at the levels we require of men.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
The Military is also addressing how they do Physical training. It used to be Run, run, run for 5 days a week with some added pushups, situps and maybe pullups. Too much running destroys a soldier and I routinely had to send soldiers to sickcall because they were just broken.

Thankfully the Army seems to finally be addressing that.

Yeah it's amazing how many bodies are broken by military PT. They just start with the knees and work their way out from there.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
I guess the Army is about to learn what the Navy did when they placed women in Boat Units. I eagerly await the must heft Private Johnson out of the field when he is 6ft 4in and 200lbs and his squid make is Private Suzy 5ft Nothing and 100lbs soaking wet lol.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
This is exactly the same as banning women from combat roles. Women cannot perform at the levels we require of men.
Guess what the Army is doing?
And there were two women that managed to make to through Ranger School.. it can be done. There are women fit enough to be in combat arms.
Yeah it's amazing how many bodies are broken by military PT. They just start with the knees and work their way out from there.
Knees, Ankles, Lower back. You completely fall apart from there.
They have been making that happen less, but the Army will always have one leaving with disabilities in general.
I guess the Army is about to learn what the Navy did when they placed women in Boat Units. I eagerly await the must heft Private Johnson out of the field when he is 6ft 4in and 200lbs and his squid make is Private Suzy 5ft Nothing and 100lbs soaking wet lol.
If guys smaller then me (I'm 5ft 10in and 153 ilbs) can and do become infantry, and are required to do the same.
As long as the women joining infantry and Armor are able to keep up with the physical requirements it is fine.

Hell at least one female has completed Armor school.
So it is possible.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
You know if the US military really wanted to help fix the fitness problem that plagues their potential pool of recruits you'd think they'd push hard to kill the subsidies on corn as related to high fructose corn syrup. Mind you good luck getting that made into law
You know why those sorts of subsidies were implemented in the first place right? If you take a gander through history, it is filled with warnings about how those who can't ensure their own food production suffer greatly for such a shortfall...
 

Zachowon

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We are fixing the fitness problem. Getting rid of people who fail PT tests, and making it so those that will be in combat have a higher level of fitness needed, no more 30 year olds being lazy to pass their easy PT test, same with females
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
We are fixing the fitness problem. Getting rid of people who fail PT tests, and making it so those that will be in combat have a higher level of fitness needed, no more 30 year olds being lazy to pass their easy PT test, same with females
I was talking about how getting rid of the subsidies is a bad thing. For the record, I'm all for allowing women into the military, as long as they put in the work to do so.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
I was talking about how getting rid of the subsidies is a bad thing. For the record, I'm all for allowing women into the military, as long as they put in the work to do so.
Oh I'm all for farm subsidies where they make sense. Given how much high fructose corn syrup being so cheap because of the subsidies we have on corn is harming the nation's health subsiding it doesn't make sense. All we have to do it stop or reduce the subsidies on the corn that go into high fructose corn syrup. Everything else can stay
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
I guess the Army is about to learn what the Navy did when they placed women in Boat Units. I eagerly await the must heft Private Johnson out of the field when he is 6ft 4in and 200lbs and his squid make is Private Suzy 5ft Nothing and 100lbs soaking wet lol.

Female EMTs and firefighters make it work. When I trained and certified as an EMT, I was required to meet the same physical qualifications as any other EMT.

Yes, you're always going to have a lot fewer women than men in heavily physical professions. That doesn't mean that women should be *categorically excluded* regardless of their actual ability to perform.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
Oh I'm all for farm subsidies where they make sense. Given how much high fructose corn syrup being so cheap because of the subsidies we have on corn is harming the nation's health subsiding it doesn't make sense. All we have to do it stop or reduce the subsidies on the corn that go into high fructose corn syrup. Everything else can stay
Here's the thing, we kind of need corn. It's one of those major food staple crops that humanity can't live without royally screwing with nutrition that way. It becomes a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
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Female EMTs and firefighters make it work. When I trained and certified as an EMT, I was required to meet the same physical qualifications as any other EMT.

Yes, you're always going to have a lot fewer women than men in heavily physical professions. That doesn't mean that women should be *categorically excluded* regardless of their actual ability to perform.
The difference is, not that I disagree with you, is that in the military infantry is expected to be able to at the very least drag someone, maybe even carry over the shoulder in someone with full kit, which varies from 45 50 extra pounds, to if including Ruck, 150 Ibs, and that isn't including their normal weight. Having to drag someone normally without kit is hard enough, that was lighter then me, let alone someone in full kit. For Tankers they have to be able to lift the parts of the inside of the tank (The canon breach) to the outside so yeah.

I say if they are physically able, go ahead. Like those twofemale officers who passed ranger school
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
The difference is, not that I disagree with you, is that in the military infantry is expected to be able to at the very least drag someone, maybe even carry over the shoulder in someone with full kit, which varies from 45 50 extra pounds, to if including Ruck, 150 Ibs, and that isn't including their normal weight. Having to drag someone normally without kit is hard enough, that was lighter then me, let alone someone in full kit. For Tankers they have to be able to lift the parts of the inside of the tank (The canon breach) to the outside so yeah.

The baseline physical requirements for firefighters are pretty up there as well, the key ones being carrying a 50-pound standpipe pack up a three story rescue tower and then back down, and lifting and carrying a 175-pound rescue mannequin for a distance of 100 feet, all done in full firefighter turnout gear.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
The baseline physical requirements for firefighters are pretty up there as well, the key ones being carrying a 50-pound standpipe pack up a three story rescue tower and then back down, and lifting and carrying a 175-pound rescue mannequin for a distance of 100 feet, all done in full firefighter turnout gear.
How much weight is full turnout gear? The average Infantry soldier has at least 35 to 50 pounds of gear, not including a ruck, especially if they are airborne troops, who have rucks and don't really use vehicles in the initial drop. THey do get them, but it all depends on the drop situation.

Knowing the Army, they will give the females the MG or make them a AR so they carry the heavier guns and have to carry more and heavier ammo (The MG: A 240B which weighs around 27 lbs, and the AR: The M249 SAW which is around 22 lbs loaded)
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
How much weight is full turnout gear?

Turnout gear is pretty heavy, but the main reason it adds to the challenge is that it's fire-resistant gear that is very bulky, cumbersome, and of course provides no ventilation at all. When combined with breathing apparatus, it's pretty close to the amount of exhaustion you'd get doing workouts in full NBC gear.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Turnout gear is pretty heavy, but the main reason it adds to the challenge is that it's fire-resistant gear that is very bulky, cumbersome, and of course provides no ventilation at all. When combined with breathing apparatus, it's pretty close to the amount of exhaustion you'd get doing workouts in full NBC gear.
Gas masks alone make it harder for anyone and I am in Korea doing PT iwth them on.
Ventilation? What's that? A vest isnt that breathable, the amount of times I have been soaked in sweat under my vest is not short. Maybe those wearing plate carriers are diffrent but the IOTV issued, is not fun.
I have no doubt firefighters have it hard. Infantry are expected to be able to carry themselves and thier buddy with gear and weapon.

Both groups have it hard.
 

Tryglaw

Well-known member
Well, you could always adapt the Spetsnaz minimum fitness entry requirement...
;)

161054523.jpg
 
Both are expected to be able to piss in an empty water bottle while in a vehicle on long patrols. This will produce messy problems, either that will anger the maintenance crew or make the patrol have to make a pit stop.

eh life finds a way in regards to bodily functions. My main concern is that everyone can actually carry their gear.
 

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