Important TOS Update Discussion

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Another thing that comes is the limiting of self criticizing.
When I see broader problems in my own culture, I try to point it out.
I inevitably get censored and banned as an "antisemite" for it, usually by christians who are trying to defend my people from self criticism.

This is one of the rare places on the internet where I can refer to the ADL as "Antisemitism Development League - an organization whose goal is to turn people into antisemites". And critize the actual specific cultural issues that have given rise to 90% of ameri-jews being deep blue democrats (with most of them hating israel too because "muh apartheid state")
 
Again, criticizing individuals or organizations is just fine, conflating those individuals and organizations with 'the Jews' as an aggregate is not fine. The ADL is perfectly fair game, considering that it was founded in response to the arrest and conviction of a pedophile murderer (who was convicted by a jury that included members of the local Jewish community, BTW). So that's fine, but then saying that the ADL is the way it is because it is Jewish? That not OK.
 
Coincidentally if you want to absolutely trash AIPAC then be my guest. Just make sure its something they are doing, not because of their religion. Actions and causes these groups support.

There is a difference between 'this group sucks because of these actions or they support these causes' vs 'Oh God, Da Joos are taking over. Cry foul and despair!'

Probably not the best example I can use but...ya know, things like that.

Also, consider the staff on this site. We are the guys who knowingly and willfully allowed people to remain on this site who were purposely trying to infiltrate and destroy this site and community from within due to NOT wanting to be SB or SV. But at some point we realized we went a little too far in the other direction. This is our way of trying to be a bit more balanced.
 
Again, criticizing individuals or organizations is just fine, conflating those individuals and organizations with 'the Jews' as an aggregate is not fine. The ADL is perfectly fair game, considering that it was founded in response to the arrest and conviction of a pedophile murderer (who was convicted by a jury that included members of the local Jewish community, BTW). So that's fine, but then saying that the ADL is the way it is because it is Jewish? That not OK.
So the fact that the ADL, a jewish only organization, populated entirely by jews, represeting only jews, is displaying the key defining aspects of jewish culture. Is antisemitic?

Us jews have a deep and systemic persecution complex, and the from birth brainwashing about how every goyim is out to get us and every time they say a jew did bad things it is because they are making up blood libel in order to justify our genocide... And never ever because a jew did something bad. jews are incapable of doing something bad and any claim that one ever did is antisemitic blood libel.

That almost every jewish holiday is "suddenly for no reason at all the goyim tried to genocide us, god saved us, lets eat".
That in one particular holiday, passover, we explicitly say how it is the very foundation of judaism and it is what it means to be a jew.
And the story of it is that out of sheer baseless paranoia the goyim tried to genocide us and so God mass slaughtered the goyim to deliver us.

That this kind of extremely caustic culture has absolutely no effect on the mind of young jewish boys and girls and does not in any way influence them later in life. such as, for example, into believing the story the ADL spins about how that poor innocent pedophile was in fact the victim of blood libel.

(and no, blood libel does not SOLELY refer to the allegeations of blood sacrifice from hundreds of years ago. that is where the word was coined. but language evolved and blood libel expanded long ago to encompass all "lies told about jews to promote antisemitism and genocide".).

Every single jewish member of the ADL went through this aspect of our culture. From birth they were inundated with this toxic culture. And I can't criticize my own culture and how self harming aspect of it are.
Because to do so would say that a jewish organization is behaving in a jewish manner is an antisemitic remark.

And here is the thing. Without such introspection to reach those conclusions. without sharing those conclusions with other people. They would never be able to understand why or how. What the problem is. What kind of conclusions would they reach then? You think banning them from this site will make them disappear forever? that they won't find answers in other places?
 
There is a difference between 'this group sucks because of these actions or they support these causes' vs 'Oh God, Da Joos are taking over. Cry foul and despair!'
I think this is what people are worried about, because the line between "This jewish organization, run by jews, for jews, to promote jewish ideals, at the expense of the goyim, just so happens to be evil" and "This organization is evil because it's jewish" is pretty damned thin.

Like, we have the word 'synonym' for a reason.
 
Mostly because organizations like the ADL which *purport* to represent all jews, be for jews, to promote jewish ideals, are rarely comprised of actual faithful jews. I don't care what the group in question claims to represent, I care about how you behave. Bashing the ADL, for example, is perfectly kosher, going from that to 'all jews are like the ADL' is not.

Capische?
 
Mostly because organizations like the ADL which *purport* to represent all jews, be for jews, to promote jewish ideals, are rarely comprised of actual faithful jews. I don't care what the group in question claims to represent, I care about how you behave. Bashing the ADL, for example, is perfectly kosher, going from that to 'all jews are like the ADL' is not.

Capische?
It is true that ADL are not faithful to the religion. None believe in God, although many worship secular religions like communism.

But jews are not just the religion, it is also a culture and most jews believe a race.

The ADL misbehavior flows directly from a systemic problem that exists in jewish culture.
As I explained in detail in the last post, this is a cultural issue that is caused due to brainwashing from birth almost all jews go through, both secular and religious.

My family is secular and I lived through it first hand. Every jew I know goes through it. Took me years to grapple with this issues and get deprogrammed.
 
honestly, it is very creepy seeing all those chirstians trying to "defend my honor" like that and singling me out for special protection and getting offended on my behalf..
First my people get special protections.
My family is secular and I lived through it first hand. Every jew I know goes through it. Took me years to grapple with this issues and get deprogrammed.
I am Jewish Bruh trust me...Like we get it, do you have to change your avatar to the Star of David and your name to "I AM JEWISH" to be any clearer?

To all your above chatter I would like to point out three facts.
  1. Just because you are a Jew doesn't mean we are obligated to agree with you or your argument, nor does it mean it holds any more water than it otherwise would, which is incredibly hilariously ironic considering you are using it as a soapbox to elevate your argument in the eyes of others for the same people who claim that Jews shouldn't have any special treatment or a soapbox to stand on while ironically promoting that same idea.
  2. Your entire above argument is based on your own opinions, experiences, and biases alone, it is entirely conjectural on par with 'My black grandma said Cleopatra was black' level of facts.
  3. Self-hating people within all groups exist and none of them acknowledge their self-hate, even Jews, so how do I know you aren't one just in a more untraditional sense? Why should I take your word at face value over every other Jew I have ever had a similar discussion with? You aren't a noteworthy authority on the issue or given a mandate by a bunch of jewish scalars to speak for them as such an authority, you openly admit disdain for Jewish culture based off your biased view on it as you have detailed above and that leads me to think taking whatever you say at face value would be an unwise practice
In short, I have no idea where you think you are going with this, but this type of argument isn't working in your favor.
 
I am Jewish Bruh trust me...Like we get it, do you have to change your avatar to the Star of David and your name to "I AM JEWISH" to be any clearer?

To all your above chatter I would like to point out three facts.
  1. Just because you are a Jew doesn't mean we are obligated to agree with you or your argument, nor does it mean it holds any more water than it otherwise would, which is incredibly hilariously ironic considering you are using it as a soapbox to elevate your argument in the eyes of others for the same people who claim that Jews shouldn't have any special treatment or a soapbox to stand on while ironically promoting that same idea.
  2. Your entire above argument is based on your own opinions, experiences, and biases alone, it is entirely conjectural on par with 'My black grandma said Cleopatra was black' level of facts.
  3. Self-hating people within all groups exist and none of them acknowledge their self-hate, even Jews, so how do I know you aren't one just in a more untraditional sense? Why should I take your word at face value over every other Jew I have ever had a similar discussion with? You aren't a noteworthy authority on the issue or given a mandate by a bunch of jewish scalars to speak for them as such an authority, you openly admit disdain for Jewish culture based off your biased view on it as you have detailed above and that leads me to think taking whatever you say at face value would be an unwise practice
In short, I have no idea where you think you are going with this, but this type of argument isn't working in your favor.
I am not self hating.
I recongnize that our culture is not perfect, and it has some systemic problems that cause real genuine harm to both us and ourselves and others.
This does NOT mean I want to see us replaced or genocided like liberal would.

Have you been to a passover before? Any other jewish holiday?
How old were you when you first heard the term blood libel?
Do you know any other jews?
 
Neither of these examples would be considered antisemitic under our rule unless you somehow stretch them from being about individuals holding these views being viewpoints all Jews hold... which I mean, for goodness sake, is just demonstratable false seeing as we have Jews on this very site who agree with those criticisms and don't hold to such double standards.
The problem is as others have said earlier, it seems as if Jews are getting more protection than others. If this was a rule that said you can't accuse ANY ethnic group of ALL of them being involved in bad things that would be one thing.

Because correct me if I'm wrong but from what I'm reading the rule it seems like you would be punished for saying
"There is a large amount of Jews who are promoting leftist, and globalist ideals that are leading to the collapse of the west. Jews as a culture(not every single one) have a problem."

But saying this would be ok
"There is a large amount of blacks who are promoting revenge and hatred against white people for historical actions both real and imagined that were committed against their ancestors but now they want to hurt innocent white people for it. Blacks have a culture(not every single one obviously I shouldn't have to do this) have a problem."
 
The problem is as others have said earlier, it seems as if Jews are getting more protection than others. If this was a rule that said you can't accuse ANY ethnic group of ALL of them being involved in bad things that would be one thing.

Because correct me if I'm wrong but from what I'm reading the rule it seems like you would be punished for saying
"There is a large amount of Jews who are promoting leftist, and globalist ideals that are leading to the collapse of the west. Jews as a culture(not every single one) have a problem."

But saying this would be ok
"There is a large amount of blacks who are promoting revenge and hatred against white people for historical actions both real and imagined that were committed against their ancestors but now they want to hurt innocent white people for it. Blacks have a culture(not every single one obviously I shouldn't have to do this) have a problem."
Well you can then advocate we ban it for all groups then to be fair but it isn't changing.

And I mean it. Sunhawk is on record its either the above, this or shutting down the site.

Regardless of which the days of antisemitic behavior are over.
I am not self hating.
I recongnize that our culture is not perfect, and it has some systemic problems that cause real genuine harm to both us and ourselves and others.
This does NOT mean I want to see us replaced or genocided like liberal would.

Have you been to a passover before? Any other jewish holiday?
How old were you when you first heard the term blood libel?
Do you know any other jews?
Yes I know Jews and "I am not self hating" sounds exactly like something a self hating person would say.

You literally are going in on the angle of "Nobody who is non Jewish can argue against me because I know better!"

You are Jewish, you have an opinion on your people, just because you are the sole Jewish person here doesn't make it automatically true by default or make any outside skepticism of it irrelevant if anything it means people should take it even more dubiously.
 
Yes I know Jews and "I am not self hating" sounds exactly like something a self hating person would say.
That is a catch 22.
You accuse me of being a self hating jew. And now no matter what I say you do this.

Also, I love the part where you are attacking my character, because you cannot address my points.
You literally are going in on the angle of "Nobody who is non Jewish can argue against me because I know better!"

You are Jewish, you have an opinion on your people, just because you are the sole Jewish person here doesn't make it automatically true by default or make any outside skepticism of it irrelevant if anything it means people should take it even more dubiously.
Literally the only way it can be discussed.
Anyone who isn't a jew would already be banned for antisemitism
 
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That is a catch 22.
You accuse me of being a self hating jew. And now no matter what I say you do this.
I am pointing out you have made enough statements to factualize that you have a biased view on your own Jewish culture which may or may not be product of any number of biased viewpoints and circumstances unique to you, self-hate or no self hate. Truth.

I also pointed out you are using your own Jewish status as a soapbox to push this biased view as the sole one and silence any dissent against it because you are the sole Jewish person here at the moment that isn't fishing. Truth.

You have a right to an opinion, but your opinion is that, an opinion. Nothing you said above about Jewish culture is unclouded by your bias or a clear lack of evidence, I pointed out that fact and I also pointed out it's not a crime to disagree with it a such.

Now you could be 100% correct but both in statements concerning yourself being nonself-hating and your beliefs on the Jewish community, but it doesn't change the fact that you're not presenting those facts in any way that is provable or immune to scrutiny.
Also, I love the part where you are attacking my character, because you cannot address my points.
They are literally opinionated statements; they are by nature unbacked by evidence so why should I even bother debunking them?

Like legit. If you want to pass on your opinion of the situation as a Jew fine, but you somehow keep going out of your way to promote your word as gospel even though nothing you have said is provable or unbiased by your view.
Ok, yes, I will advocate for this.
Fine. Thats your right.
 
I still feel like this nonsense is a self-fulfilling prophesy.

"Disliking jews for reasons like believing they have some sort of global conspiracy to benefit jews alone is not acceptable, this is why we are making exclusive rules to prevent you from talking about how jews have a global conspiracy to benefit jews alone!"

It just activates those neurons, and brings the Bart meme into question.
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It's almost as bad as the leftist arguments of 'Black people are not violent thuggish criminals, go ahead and call them the N-Word and see what happens to you!'
 
Well you can then advocate we ban it for all groups then to be fair but it isn't changing.

And I mean it. Sunhawk is on record its either the above, this or shutting down the site.

Regardless of which the days of antisemitic behavior are over.
Well then yes, you should protect all ethnic groups equally instead of simping for one and giving it better treatment. If criticizing and insulting Jews is banned, then the same should apply to Arabs, Chinese, Russians, White people, Latin Americans, etc.

And I did not even get into the whole other problem with what is antisemitism. It's been defined as such a broad way it's ridiculous. I mean is the rule against racial hatered(a rule against that could be justified if it's giving every race the same protection) or is it going to also defend the Jewish religion? With the second one the userbase can tell you to fuck off, yes you own the site, and yes we will follow the rules but there is no rule against criticing your decisions or pointing out you are starting to be like spacebattles. Because if we are Christian we should be able to criticize what we see as false and wrong faiths like Islam and Judaism.
 
If the new rule is 100% staying, I do think a more general ban on hatred for all ethnic groups rather than only the Jews would be the fairest way to go about this. Maybe this is because I joined the forum after you guys purged all the open Nazis or something, but I've honestly seen more openly, even genocidally hostile posts directed toward Russians (specifically the Russian people, not only their country) in the earlier stages of the Russo-Ukrainian War than I have ones directed toward the Jews in the 'Hamas attack on Israel (and consequent war)' thread.

And I don't think I've ever seen someone get banned for expressing genocidal anti-Semitic hatred in all my time here (though perhaps, as said, such cases happened before my time). That crazy Filipino-Canadian guy from BC I mentioned earlier - don't remember the name but he had a succession of edgy avatars, I think ending with the eight-pointed Chaos star from Warhammer - is the most recent member to eat a ban for being an overt genocidal racist I can recall (rather than say, being a sock or some other variant of idiot) and IIRC what did him in was not raging & raving about Jews being untermenschen, but about white Americans instead. Definitely doesn't seem as though it's just Jews who could use such a protective clause here; also, from what I've observed on other forums, liberals still tend to try to avoid sounding overtly antisemitic (it's further-left progressives and commie types that ditch that mask post-Oct 7th attacks) but think that whites and 'white-adjacent' peoples (Asians usually, but basically any successful and non-criminal minority in general) are fair game for racist attacks under that infamous 'racism = prejudice + power' calculation.
 
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