And this is how "some people" converse on The Sietch:
"YOU KILLED THIS MAN!"
*does a simple word search*
I'd like to point out all of these posts are out of context. So the above isn't actually indicative of anything.
Important TOS Update Discussion
- Thread starter LordSunhawk
- Start date
- Status
And this is how "some people" converse on The Sietch:
"YOU KILLED THIS MAN!"
*does a simple word search*
I'd like to point out all of these posts are out of context. So the above isn't actually indicative of anything.
mrttao
Well-known member
even out of context I am not seeing a problem.
oh noe, zeno called someone out for saying that jews are a special kind of good and pure and that even though all feds are evil, jewish fed are special and good.
how is this antisemitic at all?
honestly, it is very creepy seeing all those chirstians trying to "defend my honor" like that and singling me out for special protection and getting offended on my behalf..
I mean, I know there is at least one other jew here who is pretty lefty and he actually DOES get offended. But at least he is offended on his own behalf. (eveni f I think he is wrong to be offended).
We got enough jews playing the victim olympics and making us look bad and making people hate us with how cringe they are without other people playing it on our behalf.
King Krávoka
This universe is made of knives.
Posting a 'joke' where the setup and punchline are holocaust denialism, all the way through, does. Now, I know where it's posted, but on the other hand, if You're reading a meme where the setup and punchline are both hentai injokes, then its poster is probably a hentai addict and making a fool of Himself by arguing otherwise. Same with any other injoke because it shows that the world it describes is important to You, and that You welcome any of its surprising conclusions. He welcomed this surprising conclusion of "what if time travellers knew my forbidden holocaust truths", so he thinks that it does repeat forbidden truths about the Holocaust.
So to repeat that in simpler terms:
If you post a porn joke in the porn memes thread, you're a porn addict even if it was on topic and invited.
If you post a holocaust denial joke in the offensive memes thread, you're a holocaust denier even if it was on topic and invited.
TyrantTriumphant
Well-known member
I don't really see the issue here. It's been made clear that you can condemn individuals for their actions. Like George Soros, Doug Emhoff, or whoever.
You can still criticize Israel for actual bad decisions they have made, like how their army and intelligence agencies screwed up October 7 or their poor gun control policies.
Just don't endorse unfounded blanket statements about all Jews. I don't even think that it's against the rules to criticize Jewish groups for specific and real things they have done. For instance I am not fond of how the Reformed Jews in America are overwhelmingly leftist or how many Ultra-Orthodox in Israel avoid the draft and exploit welfare. But I don't apply these criticisms to all Jews, and am quite happy with Jewish groups like the American Orthodox who have been quite helpful to the conservative cause. I believe that these are acceptable statements to make under the rules.
The staff is free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this but as it currently stands I don't see this as a big deal.
You can still criticize Israel for actual bad decisions they have made, like how their army and intelligence agencies screwed up October 7 or their poor gun control policies.
Just don't endorse unfounded blanket statements about all Jews. I don't even think that it's against the rules to criticize Jewish groups for specific and real things they have done. For instance I am not fond of how the Reformed Jews in America are overwhelmingly leftist or how many Ultra-Orthodox in Israel avoid the draft and exploit welfare. But I don't apply these criticisms to all Jews, and am quite happy with Jewish groups like the American Orthodox who have been quite helpful to the conservative cause. I believe that these are acceptable statements to make under the rules.
The staff is free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this but as it currently stands I don't see this as a big deal.
This is what pisses me off so much. There's no united internet defence force to defend the fucking Bhutanese on every forum and social media site.
There's no concentrated effort to 'stop New Zealand Maori hate' on every website.
The jews have an entire damned nation, and huge influence in financial, military, and government areas. I think they can defend themselves for fuck sake.
Where's all the users here demanding 'justice' for the endless shitflings against Christians on reddit and other sites? Where's the special made-up term that defines 'accusations that Christians want to kill women via preventing abortions' or something? It's absurdity.
But I guess so few else can see the obvious patterns here, so it's not worth arguing about. Censoring what people see, touch, and feel, doesn't make those go away, it just makes an Emperor's New Clothes style of delusion...
Maori weren't herded into gas chambers, and the Bhutanese haven't been chased out of their homeland and discriminated against for several thousand years.
There are exactly 2 countries in the world that are actually safe for Jews to live in, those are the US and Israel.
Frankly your sort of rhetoric is why Jews have been persecuted and discriminate against for thousands of years.
TyrantTriumphant
Well-known member
Please don't get yourself booted from the site. The Sietch would be lesser without your vigorous criticisms of modern Fallout. I don't want to see the Bethesda shills have everything their own way.
If you feel so strongly about this maybe you should just avoid this topic in the future. No one is really convincing each other anyway.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Vatnik
Double citizenship academics demanding their host nations open up the borders to infinte immigrants.
Same academics demanding Israel remain pure, because theirs is completely different case.
Criticizing them is anti-semitism.
As white person I think there should be more special treatment for non-whites.
I am not white I am jewish.
Criticizing such double face behaviour is anti-semitism.
Every scumbag who can claim jewish heritage can hide behind the veil of anti-semitism and it is why Jews are increasingly hated in the world, because so many scumbags are defended by the wall of ethnic solidarity.
I mean it's not like we have a rule against anti-russianism despite number of members religiously obsessively spewing hatred against them. Such double standards.
Same academics demanding Israel remain pure, because theirs is completely different case.
Criticizing them is anti-semitism.
As white person I think there should be more special treatment for non-whites.
I am not white I am jewish.
Criticizing such double face behaviour is anti-semitism.
Every scumbag who can claim jewish heritage can hide behind the veil of anti-semitism and it is why Jews are increasingly hated in the world, because so many scumbags are defended by the wall of ethnic solidarity.
I mean it's not like we have a rule against anti-russianism despite number of members religiously obsessively spewing hatred against them. Such double standards.
mrttao
Well-known member
...
the Maori were mostly staked alive.
those that were not were enslaved and brutalized.
also raped, tortured, and broken in many other ways.
When the british finally ended up liberating them only 101 maori remained alive.
not a single pure blooded maori exists, all are hybrids between them and the slave owners.
I'll drop it, but nothing radicalizes a person more than telling them that no matter the circumstances, "You aren't allowed to talk about that!".
Simonbob
Well-known member
Bacle, as an Australian, I'll just say, "Bullshit.".
Are there places where being a Jew is dangerous? Yes. Is it literaly everywhere except the US and Israel? Fuck no.
Anti-race stuff should be all races, or none. Or, yours, and you make it clear it's for you and yours.
With what I've seen of the jihadi's Australia has imported, and how the Aussie gov is protecting them from censure and criticism over their actions in many cases, along with the lack of US style free speech to fight back against the jihadi's with, and the Aussie anti-semites I've met/seen elsewhere, Australia isn't really any more culturally safe for Jewish people than Europe is these days, it's just as an island jihadi's cannot just walk to Australia, like they do with Europe.
Simonbob
Well-known member
If you're talking in those terms, Texas is considering an overt Sharia city.
Make up your mind.
And unlike in most of the rest of the world, that city is getting push back and Jews in the US have the 2nd Amendment.
Armed Jews are harder to kill, and Aussieland hates private gun ownership.
Simonbob
Well-known member
sigh I understand and agree with the spirit behind the change, but I still think this is going to end badly.
Neither of these examples would be considered antisemitic under our rule unless you somehow stretch them from being about individuals holding these views being viewpoints all Jews hold... which I mean, for goodness sake, is just demonstratable false seeing as we have Jews on this very site who agree with those criticisms and don't hold to such double standards.
Have you looked at Europe lately?
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
Pretty much my position in a sentence. I can see where the staff are coming from, when a forum is advertised as both a right-leaning space and one where there's free speech (certainly, at minimum, relative to what you can find on overpoliced hellholes like Reddit and many more social media/forum spaces), in a time & cultural zeitgeist where most thoughts to the right of Lenin are viciously scrutinized and cracked down on across the online sphere, it's inevitable that some of the users 'right of Lenin' that you'll be getting will be genuine racists - whether antisemites, anti-black people, anti-Asian, or all of the above and more. (The real fun comes with the really loopy types that despise literally everyone and even 'their own kind' for failing to match whatever deranged ideal they have in their heads, I believe a Filipino-Canadian member who fits that exact mold was banned a couple months ago.)
And if the unironically, deeply hateful racist types are allowed to run unchecked, they'll attract a lot more likeminded people and trash the place for everyone who doesn't like seeing racial slurs and derailment into bashing whichever ethnic group they loathe the most that day in every other post, even (or especially) in threads that have nothing to do with such politics. I remember that's what happened to Voat, one of the early attempts at spinning off Reddit with free speech being prioritized. Neat place with a more relaxed atmosphere than Reddit sure, until you couldn't post a thread talking about games (any games) without whichever lunatics were online at the time flooding it to drop N-bombs left & right, posit that the game industry was run by Satanic Jews and that you should never give them your money under any circumstance (even if the game in question was made by, say, a Japanese developer and far predated the post-2014 culture war), find some convoluted ways to twist the discussion toward their pet obsessions, etc.
Yeah, suffice to say that site stopped being useful even for culture war/Gamergate discussions very quickly (that moved back to other forums including either of the KiA subreddits or, after further squeezing by the Reddit admins & jannies, the sparsely-populated .win), chased off everyone who was both right of Lenin and left of Himmler, and died ignominiously from lack of activity & funds back in like 2020. So I can perfectly understand why the staff might want to avoid that.
However! I also remember that no small number of the forums I used to frequent as a younger guy and which allowed political discussion at all often took this step as their first one towards greater censorship. Most people don't like antisemites and their more over-the-top rants are an easy target for mockery & bashing in turn, so fine. But then the rules against antisemitism get interpreted more & more stringently, moving (whether over months or years) toward outlawing even legitimate criticisms of Jewish groups and Israel generally, and either concurrently or afterwards moving to make more and more groups & topics of discussion off-limits. And I don't even mean things like exercising influence on the American gov't through AIPAC or whatever; I mean things like allowing criminal degenerates on the level of child rapists and cartel collaborators to find refuge, and even live comfortably, in Israel, something which @mrttao has brought up in this very thread and pointed out earlier is something which (rightly) gets slammed by Jews too.
Ah, but accusing Israel of harboring child rapists can easily be construed as an antisemitic attack echoing much older accusations that the Jews are out to corrupt society and prey on your children by uncharitable and/or overzealous mods and posters, thus, something worthy of deletion or even a ban. Seen it happen on older forums myself, like the political discussion section of Total War Center (site's been largely unusable for months, and from what I saw on the rare occasion that I was able to access it it seems only the most rabid & entrenched far-left and far-right partisans still bother to remain active there - it's really not useful as anything but a repository for old TW mods nowadays - but I digress). The same is true when social conservatives point to the disproportionately high number of Jews involved in the porn industry, from prominent actors & actresses like Ron Jeremy, James Deen or Nina Hartley up to owners, producers & propagators like Al Goldstein, Adam Glasser or Steven Hirsch, who will say shit like this...
And then either scurry off to leave other Jews (certainly including those who aren't of the same godless, liberal persuasion like themselves) to deal with the inevitable accusation of being morally corrupting subversives and/or racial supremacists who consider 'the goyim' but beasts to be used & abused for their own pleasure which are newly buttressed by what monstrous bile they just spewed, or fall back on using their Jewish identity as a shield against their critics, which unsurprisingly just entrenches such accusations even more strongly in the long run. But again calling such evil self-admitted behavior can easily be and has been spun, by paranoid/uncharitable and overly controlling mods, into not merely attacks on these individual vile characters but the entire Jewish people, based on the old stereotypes and theories of Jews conspiring to undermine their country, poison morality and corrupt the non-Jewish youth for their own ends.
Then you end up with censorship not merely of genuine anti-Semitism but a valid criticism of what certain Jews have actually done (and very proudly admit to doing), and that's usually followed up with broader & broader expansions of the original rule in my experience, until the forum becomes unusable and people start jumping ship en masse.
I'll trust the discernment of the Sietch staff on this count because I haven't seen much reason not to, but I don't fault the critics and I do agree with them that this new rule could easily become the start of a slippery slope. As a humble user, there's not much I can do but ask that the staff exercises such discernment carefully and consistently to avoid slipping down said slope to a point where criticism of Jewish figures in any way becomes functionally illegal and holding sociopolitical opinions to the right of Ben Shapiro becomes a bannable offense, which I don't believe would be to the Sietch's benefit any more than becoming an open sewer crossed with an insane asylum like Voat would.
(As far as challenging overt antisemites on the forum goes, I'm not a terribly active user - if I don't have an active project going on I usually just post memes once or twice a week, and the memes poking fun at ethnic groups I've posted have a lot more targets than just Jews, including my own (Chinese). Suffice to say that while it has happened, on account of my low activity it's rare for me to get into it with other users for extended periods of time, whether over antisemitism or any other topic. But both of the timelines I've posted on here should make it clear that I'm not an antisemite, I consider Jews to be much like any other people in that individual Jews can do good or bad and that as a nation they can go through periods of both ascendancy and decline whether they're in possession of Israel already, as in Dewey Defeats Truman, or not, as in Vivat Stilicho.)
Welp, there goes any plans to post something about Fr. Mawdsley, I guess.
- Status