The Worst Scifi and Fantasy Militaries.
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Val the Moofia Boss
Well-known member
Admiral Adama from NuBSG. IIRC he was overall decent, but during the Pegasus episode he made an unbelievably reckless move that could have very nearly been the end for his faction.
Admiral Adama hears that Admiral Cain is going to execute his men. He phones up Cain and tells her that he's sending a shuttle over to retrieve his men from her ship. She can either have his men standing at the hangar ready for pick up, or a swat team can shoot their way through her ship and retrieve them. Cain launches her fighters to intercept the shuttle. Adama launches his fighters to counter hers.
Neither commander gives their fighters permission to shoot.
So what you have is both side's squadrons meet in the middle and begin circle strafing each other, nearly colliding with each other, each trying to get into the blind spot of each other. Whilst this is happening, the squadron leaders are begging their admirals to let them fire. The admirals were indecisive and squandered any advantages they might have had and recklessly endangered their men by putting them in such incredible danger. If they were going to send out the fighters in the first place, they should have committed and given them the authorization to shoot to defend themselves from the get go. If the admirals weren't willing to actually shoot the other side, then they shouldn't have sent out the fighters in the first place.
But this has broader implications than just the loss of the Galactica. The entire colonial fleet could have been lost. Adama did not tell the rest of the civilian fleet to jump away before he picked a fight with Cain. Adama knew that Cain had mugged civilian ships and left them to die. Cain does not recognize the authority of Adama or President Roslin. Adama has every reason to believe that the civilian ships are fair game to Cain. If the Pegasus did begin losing the battle, Cain could very well have begun shooting the civilian ships, thinking that she might be able to blackmail Galactica into standing down.
As aforementioned, there was great uncertainty over whether or not Galactica could defeat Pegasus. If Galactica was defeated, then the civilian fleet would have been at the mercy of the Pegasus, either being mugged, or enslaved, or blown up, or left to die. It would have been trivial for Adama - prior to phoning up Cain - to have told the civilian fleet to jump away to secret coordinates, and if a Galactica raptor didn't jump to those coordinates to give them the "okay" to regroup within a few days, then they should assume that Galactica lost and should continue their journey.
This is a pretty monumental screwup and could've cost Adama's side everything, all because he didn't send out a precautionary message.
Actually, challenging the Pegasus in the first place might have been Adama's biggest screwup. Yes, Adama loves his folk and isn't going to leave them to die, but he has greater responsibilities than to just two guys. He has a ship with thousands of crewmen on board, and has sworn to protect tens of thousands of civilians. Now, as a general rule of thumb, you shouldn't get into battles you don't have a high chance of winning. Up until now, Adama had little choice as to what battles he got into, with most of the time the Cylons were jumping on top of the fleet, but this time Adama actually has the choice whether or not to start this fight.
The odds are heavily stacked against Adama. Yes, Adama's men are more experienced, but the Galactica is objectively fighting a stronger ship, and Cain's crew feel like they are being driven into a corner. They're going to give everything they can. Even if Galactica was somehow able to defeat Pegasus, the losses on Adama's side would almost certainly be immense, and there is no guarantee that Galactica would even be able to fight again, let alone effectively. So there is an argument to be made that Adama might have just advised Roslin that Pegasus was more trouble than they were worth and for the entire fleet to jump away and leave Pegasus behind.
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Starfleet from DS9, after the Dominion War began. They had developed tons of very useful technology over the years that had been locked away. For example, the Genesis device. Phase-cloaking technology. Subspace weapons. Sniper rifles that could shoot through walls. Etc. Much of the time this tech was presumably locked away in a vault because Starfleet had moral qualms about using them, or were beholden to a treaty. From the TOS and Berman eras, you never really get the sense that the Federation-Romulan war or the Federation-Klingon war was an existential threat to the Federation, but a territorial war out on the frontier. But come DS9, the Federation is facing an existential threat. Starfleet should have begun using every advantage they had. Yeah, they might be breaking treaties, but if the Federation falls the Romulans and the Klingons likely will too. If the Federation survived the Romulans and the Klingons probably wouldn't press the issue, knowing that they had just been saved by the Federation, and the Federation just fought off the Dominion with these weapons so it'd probably be best not to antagonize them.
Admiral Adama hears that Admiral Cain is going to execute his men. He phones up Cain and tells her that he's sending a shuttle over to retrieve his men from her ship. She can either have his men standing at the hangar ready for pick up, or a swat team can shoot their way through her ship and retrieve them. Cain launches her fighters to intercept the shuttle. Adama launches his fighters to counter hers.
Neither commander gives their fighters permission to shoot.
So what you have is both side's squadrons meet in the middle and begin circle strafing each other, nearly colliding with each other, each trying to get into the blind spot of each other. Whilst this is happening, the squadron leaders are begging their admirals to let them fire. The admirals were indecisive and squandered any advantages they might have had and recklessly endangered their men by putting them in such incredible danger. If they were going to send out the fighters in the first place, they should have committed and given them the authorization to shoot to defend themselves from the get go. If the admirals weren't willing to actually shoot the other side, then they shouldn't have sent out the fighters in the first place.
But this has broader implications than just the loss of the Galactica. The entire colonial fleet could have been lost. Adama did not tell the rest of the civilian fleet to jump away before he picked a fight with Cain. Adama knew that Cain had mugged civilian ships and left them to die. Cain does not recognize the authority of Adama or President Roslin. Adama has every reason to believe that the civilian ships are fair game to Cain. If the Pegasus did begin losing the battle, Cain could very well have begun shooting the civilian ships, thinking that she might be able to blackmail Galactica into standing down.
As aforementioned, there was great uncertainty over whether or not Galactica could defeat Pegasus. If Galactica was defeated, then the civilian fleet would have been at the mercy of the Pegasus, either being mugged, or enslaved, or blown up, or left to die. It would have been trivial for Adama - prior to phoning up Cain - to have told the civilian fleet to jump away to secret coordinates, and if a Galactica raptor didn't jump to those coordinates to give them the "okay" to regroup within a few days, then they should assume that Galactica lost and should continue their journey.
This is a pretty monumental screwup and could've cost Adama's side everything, all because he didn't send out a precautionary message.
Actually, challenging the Pegasus in the first place might have been Adama's biggest screwup. Yes, Adama loves his folk and isn't going to leave them to die, but he has greater responsibilities than to just two guys. He has a ship with thousands of crewmen on board, and has sworn to protect tens of thousands of civilians. Now, as a general rule of thumb, you shouldn't get into battles you don't have a high chance of winning. Up until now, Adama had little choice as to what battles he got into, with most of the time the Cylons were jumping on top of the fleet, but this time Adama actually has the choice whether or not to start this fight.
The odds are heavily stacked against Adama. Yes, Adama's men are more experienced, but the Galactica is objectively fighting a stronger ship, and Cain's crew feel like they are being driven into a corner. They're going to give everything they can. Even if Galactica was somehow able to defeat Pegasus, the losses on Adama's side would almost certainly be immense, and there is no guarantee that Galactica would even be able to fight again, let alone effectively. So there is an argument to be made that Adama might have just advised Roslin that Pegasus was more trouble than they were worth and for the entire fleet to jump away and leave Pegasus behind.
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Starfleet from DS9, after the Dominion War began. They had developed tons of very useful technology over the years that had been locked away. For example, the Genesis device. Phase-cloaking technology. Subspace weapons. Sniper rifles that could shoot through walls. Etc. Much of the time this tech was presumably locked away in a vault because Starfleet had moral qualms about using them, or were beholden to a treaty. From the TOS and Berman eras, you never really get the sense that the Federation-Romulan war or the Federation-Klingon war was an existential threat to the Federation, but a territorial war out on the frontier. But come DS9, the Federation is facing an existential threat. Starfleet should have begun using every advantage they had. Yeah, they might be breaking treaties, but if the Federation falls the Romulans and the Klingons likely will too. If the Federation survived the Romulans and the Klingons probably wouldn't press the issue, knowing that they had just been saved by the Federation, and the Federation just fought off the Dominion with these weapons so it'd probably be best not to antagonize them.
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World War Z military is as incompetent as can possibly be.
My choice is the Imperial Navy from Star Wars. Palpatine for some strange dumbass reason picked the absolute worst person in the Galaxy to head the Imperial Navy. Grand Moff Tarkin. Thanks to him the Tarkin Doctrine became the blueprint for the Imperial Military. It was not bases on sound military practices. It was a doctrine to placed putting fear into the general galaxy as it's priority. Instead of building a more balanced fleet he focused on ISD and the massive money sink that was the first Deathstar. And Palpatine being a tactical moron green lite all of it. As a result you end up with a fleet full of feckless inept Officers (Thrawn was a fluke not the rule) Ships that are large and imposing but not combat effective. (A squadron of Starfighters can take them out with Proton Torpedoes.) And you also end up with a Military that is the greatest recruiting tool the Rebellion ever had. Especially after the destruction of Alderon.
And the rub is this after the death of Palpatine it had as final order to cause the entire military to suicide itself. Yeah the Imperial Military was one giant ass shit show.
And the rub is this after the death of Palpatine it had as final order to cause the entire military to suicide itself. Yeah the Imperial Military was one giant ass shit show.
Can I also point out that most armies in ASOIAF swallow an idiot pill? For some reason the Dothraki are a major threat to the Free Cities and beyond that people can't hold forts worth a damn either considering how swiftly Tywin occupied the Riverlands unopposed.
Agent23
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Tarkin was more of a political appointment than anything else, IIRC, Moff is a political title not a military rank, also Palpatine's idea was to keep his underlings bickering and make sure they are disliked by the general populace so as to make coups harder.
I would like to nominate all Federation ground forces, from redshirts to the federation marines we saw in that one DS9 episode, the siege of AR-something-something.
As navies go, I'd say the Honorverse Solarian League has most beat, so it gets bronze or silver, with the only gold-eligible recipient being the various Praxis successor forces from Dread Empire's Fall.
These guys make even the dumbest starfleet admiral look humble and flexible, with Thrawn-level tactics capabilities.
Their "strategy and tactics" can be summed up as fanatical conformism towards the doctrines of the Praxis, an extremely inflexible social caste system with moron nobles, and brutality that would make a Havenite StateSec cop roll his eyes and bemoan the over-zealousness and waste.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Obligatory Starship Troopers reference.
The Wersgorix from the High Crusade are a pretty solid example. Overconfident idiots lose their advanced starship to a handful of English soldiers from the Hundred Years War. 'Kay. The English manage to reach the Wesgorix homeworld. Um. The English curbstomp the Wersgorix, take over their entire interstellar empire, and convert most of the galaxy to space-Catholocism. Wut?*
Despite everything else in the movie being wretched, I think the Psychlos in Battlefield Earth weren't so bad. What military is going to expect that Harrier Jets are still in perfect working order after a thousand years sitting in a hangar with no preservation, that the flight simulators are also in perfect working order after a thousand years, and that some cavemen would stumble on both and learn to fly in a few days?
*Note that it's actually a great and entertaining book.
The Wersgorix from the High Crusade are a pretty solid example. Overconfident idiots lose their advanced starship to a handful of English soldiers from the Hundred Years War. 'Kay. The English manage to reach the Wesgorix homeworld. Um. The English curbstomp the Wersgorix, take over their entire interstellar empire, and convert most of the galaxy to space-Catholocism. Wut?*
Despite everything else in the movie being wretched, I think the Psychlos in Battlefield Earth weren't so bad. What military is going to expect that Harrier Jets are still in perfect working order after a thousand years sitting in a hangar with no preservation, that the flight simulators are also in perfect working order after a thousand years, and that some cavemen would stumble on both and learn to fly in a few days?
*Note that it's actually a great and entertaining book.
Tarkin had learned the lesson of fear as a control point early in his life, and he saw a kindred soul in the Emperor.
Moff is both a military AND civilian title. Grand Moff means he's in charge of all the other Moffs.
Not excusing his poor taste in overall planning, as you're right. He made very poor choices about how to shape the fleet.
WORST military for me has to go to the 40K Imperium.
There only answer to date has been to just throw more bodies at it until you drown the enemy. It's Horrible.
Agent23
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That really depends on the IG regiment or Space marine chapter or Inquisitor in question IMHO.
Didn't Leia call Tarking Governor, not Moff when they met?
I am pretty sure it was supposed to be some civilian rank controlling territory that also gives the holder the right to boss around local military, like how US governors control their state's militia and how governors of the British Raj could order around troops.
Agent23
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Well, the Signs aliens are some kind of technologically advanced invading force, so they count as a military, IMHO.
The martians should have done some actual research and recon before they went all out in an attempt to take Earth.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Meh, the Martians didn't have any actual ability to build ships, they literally fired their people out of a giant cannon and let the slugs hit the Earth with supplies and Martians inside. There was zero possibility for them to do any recon and research on microbes under those circumstances. Granted it's pretty crazy today but the book was written according to the science of its time.
Signs aliens could just as easily be bored Frat Bros playing a prank as a military invasion... actually that makes a bit more sense than them being an invasion force.
Signs aliens could just as easily be bored Frat Bros playing a prank as a military invasion... actually that makes a bit more sense than them being an invasion force.
Agent23
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One way trip...yeah, having no way of retreating when invading a different world is pretty good strategy, right there.
bintananth
behind a desk
Every military in Code Geass.
I could do better than Lelouch even without his Geass power just by being smart enough to not go charging straight into an obvious trap. He's considered to be a military genius in that setting and everyone else is worse.
I could do better than Lelouch even without his Geass power just by being smart enough to not go charging straight into an obvious trap. He's considered to be a military genius in that setting and everyone else is worse.
edgeworthy
Well-known member
The Malmori in Battle Beyond the Stars. Even their leader Sador, played by a delightfully hammy John Saxon, admits that he has an army of genetic mistakes.
To the extent that he openly speculates as to whether the ship and crew he left to watch over the planet of the Waltons, were actually incompetent enough to crash into it. (Not quite, but they were so busy being drunken, libidinous barbarians that they didn't notice someone shooting them down)
To the extent that he openly speculates as to whether the ship and crew he left to watch over the planet of the Waltons, were actually incompetent enough to crash into it. (Not quite, but they were so busy being drunken, libidinous barbarians that they didn't notice someone shooting them down)
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Dauntless from Divergent.
Their basic training is literally built to set recruits against each other, when unit cohesion is easily the most vital part of any military. And that's without talking about how the ranking system (essentially if you're not above a certain line, you get thrown out. And that's a quota for them) kneecaps their manpower.
Their basic training is literally built to set recruits against each other, when unit cohesion is easily the most vital part of any military. And that's without talking about how the ranking system (essentially if you're not above a certain line, you get thrown out. And that's a quota for them) kneecaps their manpower.
I'd forgotten about them. Yeah, they're build to fail.
So they are insisting on having the Dark Eldar problems... without being Dark Eldar, and trying to be a military rather than pirates with OP technology.
Agent23
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Dauntless was one of the billion or so copycat teenage dystopian novels that sprung up after the success of Mockingjay was it?
Yeah, most of those can safely be put onto this list, IMHO.
As well as any single organized wizard force from Harry Potter, the forefather of all this "young adult" garbage.