The Problem with McCarthy was he failed

[JagerIV]

A relatively simple statement, but with a potentially interesting answers and explanations for why its correct.

The Problem with McCarthy, of 1950s fame, was that he failed to oppress the Communists, and was more or less completely inefectual in his quest to root the communists out, rather than his desire to root out communists.

Yay, or Nay?

 

[Big Steve]

Someone did this thread before, and the same things are going to be said. Suffice to say, McCarthy was a blowhard desperate for attention after his great accomplishment of overturning the convictions of the SS officers who murdered surrendered American soldiers at Malmedy because a Jew was involved as an interpreter in the case, so he made shit up that just slightly coincided with the real issue of Soviet spying in the US and rode that road as far as he could for his own gratification.

 

[gral]

The problem wasn't that he failed; he failed because he was the problem.

In many ways, McCarthy was the opponent the communists wanted, and when he fucked up, not only what he did was tainted, but also what other people(including Richard Nixon; interesting enough, not many mention his work clearing out communists) were doing as well, by association. So no, what shit is rained down on him even nowadays is too little - you don't celebrate someone who might as well have been an enemy, given the damage he did to the fight against communists.

 

[Yinko]

The question isn't "was McCarthy a good person" but rather "was McCarthy's stated goal a good one". From what I know of it, it probably was. I wouldn't say though that a "50 McCarthy's" argument would be valid though as I think his methods were not effectual at rooting out the source of the problem.

 

[Lanmandragon]

The question isn't "was McCarthy a good person" but rather "was McCarthy's stated goal a good one". From what I know of it, it probably was. I wouldn't say though that a "50 McCarthy's" argument would be valid though as I think his methods were not effectual at rooting out the source of the problem.

Oh he was certainly correct but his incompetence at fighting them caused more issues then it solved. From my understanding of the man icompetance not malice.

 

[Laskar]

The question isn't "was McCarthy a good person" but rather "was McCarthy's stated goal a good one".

Nah. Let's not play that game. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and laid by grifters and charlatans. A Communist could easily flip that around to "the question isn't 'Was Stalin a good person's but rather 'Was Stalin's stated goal a good one.'"

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Nah. Let's not play that game. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and laid by grifters and charlatans. A Communist could easily flip that around to "the question isn't 'Was Stalin a good person's but rather 'Was Stalin's stated goal a good one.'"

They already do that. You don't change anything.

Hell, most agree with the left when they say that Imperialism is bad but the left then turn around and focus only on Western Imperialism and how that is Imperialism and how its bad. You have no choice but to agree with them. They have now cornered you. Thats the problem, the left have moral majority and they use that to shame people into submission and self destruction.

 

[Yinko]

Nah. Let's not play that game. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and laid by grifters and charlatans. A Communist could easily flip that around to "the question isn't 'Was Stalin a good person's but rather 'Was Stalin's stated goal a good one.'"

That's fair, but there is also a counter. No matter how noble in the minds of the actor and his followers, if the people having the discussion disagree with him then the intentions are not good. If I dislike China, then I will not view someone who is acting from the intentions of benefiting China as having good intentions. So, good intentions follow from agreement on policy.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Here is a funny thing conservatives don't get. The leftists are also doing moral absolutism. Their moral abolutism is that capitalism is bad, white men is bad, western civilization is bad, men/patriarchy is bad, racism is bad. Thus any who supports the previous are evil.

Its insane to see non-leftists who said that they welcomed an article by a leftist site who wanted black and white morality to come back for video games. Conservatives ever stupid don't seem to realize that this is a trap. The good guys will all be leftists and the evil to be gunned down is anyone who opposes them like Maga fans for example.

Leftists do nuance for anyone not part of the groups they hate or if they are less hated. Everyone else is evil and they are the good guys just like black and white morality or moral absolutism.

 

[Abhorsen]

The question isn't "was McCarthy a good person" but rather "was McCarthy's stated goal a good one". From what I know of it, it probably was. I wouldn't say though that a "50 McCarthy's" argument would be valid though as I think his methods were not effectual at rooting out the source of the problem.

Oh he was certainly correct but his incompetence at fighting them caused more issues then it solved. From my understanding of the man icompetance not malice.

The thing was, he didn't even have good intentions. Much like a soldier who stormed Normancy but was just there to kill legally, McCarthy was lying constantly, he was just nominally on the right side of history. And much like how that soldiers story is likely to end, he ended up causing more problems than he solved.

How do we know he lied? One way we know is because he had a list he kept talking about, but the number of people he claimed were on the list grew and fell with the tides.

 

[LordsFire]

You know, I'm seeing a lot of people trash-talking McCarthy. I'm not seeing much in the way of sources on the matter.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Nah. Let's not play that game. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and laid by grifters and charlatans. A Communist could easily flip that around to "the question isn't 'Was Stalin a good person's but rather 'Was Stalin's stated goal a good one.'"

Disenfranchising, a bunch of traitors inside the Military industrial complex, State Department and Intelligence community is not a good intention that leads down the road to perdition. It is in fact the duty of every American to turn on the Pentagon leadership, the spy chiefs and the drug addicted, lazy ass field operatives who care more about chasing clout than serving the country. Had they succeeded in the 50's perhaps the god damn shield and spear of the United States wouldn't have just spent the last five years attempting to subvert American democracy and overthrow a sitting president...Maybe just maybe..soyboys like Eric Ciaramella and degenerates like James Comey and Drug addicted, Organized Crime affiliated Chinese double agents like Robert Mueller and John McCain wouldn't exist.

Or are we still pretending the US defense system doesn't have a colossal wumao problem? And Federal Law Enforcement isn't hopeless compromised and the Criminal justice system isn't utterly lost to traitors?


further more, even going by pop culture. The alleged "calumnies against Actors"? Well, organized crime affiliated, drug addicted pedophiles who dabbled in occultism and larped being hardcore Marxists because the Deconstructionist views of the American communist movement would lead to legitimizing their deviant life style..is a good thing..It is unquestionably a healthy, constructive thing to do.

preemptively assaulting organized forces dedicated to the undermining of the values so many of the So called conservatives and Libertarians on this site claim they actually care about.. Is both consistent with US values and doesn't quite violate the NAP. Yet you see these very same people offering their neck to butcher's knives because if they magically commit cultural suicide it'll be a martyrdom for the values..rather than..just that..cultural suicide.

Simply put....McCarthy wasn't wrong in his goals. He was massively incorrect in his antics and a dysfunctional drunk and an alcoholic to boot. Ike could have shown a little more spine though and helped to pressure the party to yank him from that chair and replace him with someone more charismatic and maybe a functional boozer though.

You know, I'm seeing a lot of people trash-talking McCarthy. I'm not seeing much in the way of sources on the matter.

Easiest thing to do, is imply antisemitism and "oohh but he was a cryptofascist" and "No, the road to hell is paved with good intentions nevermind every single thing McCarthy warned us about has happened" are the only real arguments you'll ever here.

At best, the criticism he deserves is that he was a drunken neurotic with a sense of tact and timing that would make Stannis Baratheon blush...and to pull off what he tried to pull off...You needed someone more..I dunno..Appealing?

Yeah appealing..works.

Oh he was certainly correct but his incompetence at fighting them caused more issues then it solved. From my understanding of the man icompetance not malice.

When you let uncle Walter's mediocre predecessors make it about Hollywood, then don't even do a thing to address the fact that the "Have you no shame sir" guy was a gigantically corrupt bastard with a bunch of skeletons in his closet and he could have easily shut that preening imbecile down on live television but failed to do so...

You probably shouldn't be trying to address the largest welfare scheme errr Defense apparatus since the Western Roman Empire started handing Germans gibs and free housing...

Well Until LBJ's coming any way..

You kinda need to be a special kind of talker for that. Case and point Reagan completely fucking over the SAG and throwing G men under the bus as closet commies and walking away smelling like Roses for it...While McCarthy had to crawl back into a bottle.

Well Nixon too..Anyone who says Tricky Dick didn't have "screen presence" is nuts....Given how he came out of this fiasco.

 

[Abhorsen]

You know, I'm seeing a lot of people trash-talking McCarthy. I'm not seeing much in the way of sources on the matter.

For my claim that he kept switching the numbers, from History.com:

McCarthy said that, “I have here in my hand a list of 205 [State Department employees] that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department.” In the next few weeks, the number fluctuated wildly, with McCarthy stating at various times that there were 57, or 81, or 10 communists in the Department of State. In fact, McCarthy never produced any solid evidence that there was even one communist in the State Department.

Note the key word is produced. He found some commies, because there were a ton. Anyone who blindly pointed to enough people in the state department could find some. The problem was he claimed to have evidence and had none, a clear lie.

Now, we can speculate on why he lied (prestige, drunkeness, fear for his electability, etc.), but his goal probably wasn't to help the American people, but a more self-serving goal. For all he knew, he could have been ruining actual investigations, but he felt fine doing it regardless. He did more damage that a dozen commies, all by himself, for his own selfish reasons.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Abhorsen citing the con artists at the History Channel

 

[ATP]

A relatively simple statement, but with a potentially interesting answers and explanations for why its correct.

The Problem with McCarthy, of 1950s fame, was that he failed to oppress the Communists, and was more or less completely inefectual in his quest to root the communists out, rather than his desire to root out communists.

Yay, or Nay?

Yes.My grandfather from polish Home Army lost half of his teeths in soviet prison.I would like to find american commie which lost even one.

 

[Typhonis]

American communists, Soviet communists both are not true communists. The only true communists are social invertebrates. Like Ants, bees, wasps, and certain species of spiders. Every time people declare communism good...you have those that will abuse the system for personal gain. I have yet to see insects do the same.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Yes.My grandfather from polish Home Army lost half of his teeths in soviet prison.I would like to find american commie which lost even one.

I am in favor of the Jorge Rafael Videla method of redistribution of wealth.

Namely, loading every member of Antifa and every silicon valley, every BLM leader and every Bank executive that's a cultural Nihlist up in Cargo planes. Chain their ankles together with some cinderblocks on a few feet of chain, then HALO drop their asses into the nearest ocean.

Oh and then seize all their assets and hand it to the victims of their treason.

Asi hicimos la cosa y asi los yanquis tienen que hacer!

American communists, Soviet communists both are not true communists. The only true communists are social invertebrates. Like Ants, bees, wasps, and certain species of spiders. Every time people declare communism good...you have those that will abuse the system for personal gain. I have yet to see insects do the same.

Because insects are not mammals...

Sophisticated mammals and birds (See Crows) are all hyper individualistic, hyper aggressive, hyper competitive and hyper assertive. Shit even Elephants and Gorillas which are the gentlest of the most intelligent mammals are despotic assholes and in the case of elephants....Rapists/necrophiliacs.

We're not meant to live the hive life. The very notion of a hivemind is disgusting to many humans and the ones who find it pleasant are usually deeply unhappy or severely mentally ill.

 

[Abhorsen]

Abhorsen citing the con artists at the History Channel

I mean, that was the first result I got. All I really needed was the cite for him changing numbers. I just clicked on the first result. If I wanted to prove something that had more questions about it, I'd look for a better source.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I am in favor of the Jorge Rafael Videla method of redistribution of wealth.

Namely, loading every member of Antifa and every silicon valley, every BLM leader and every Bank executive that's a cultural Nihlist up in Cargo planes. Chain their ankles together with some cinderblocks on a few feet of chain, then HALO drop their asses into the nearest ocean.

Oh and then seize all their assets and hand it to the victims of their treason.

Asi hicimos la cosa y asi los yanquis tienen que hacer! View attachment 214



Because insects are not mammals...

Sophisticated mammals and birds (See Crows) are all hyper individualistic, hyper aggressive, hyper competitive and hyper assertive. Shit even Elephants and Gorillas which are the gentlest of the most intelligent mammals are despotic assholes and in the case of elephants....Rapists/necrophiliacs.

We're not meant to live the hive life. The very notion of a hivemind is disgusting to many humans and the ones who find it peasant are usually deeply unhappy or severely mentally ill.

Qunari

The Qunari (literally, "People of the Qun") is the umbrella term most commonly used to describe the white-haired metallic-skinned race of large humanoids and their society that governs the islands of Par Vollen and Seheron, as well as the settlement of Kont-aar in northern Rivain, and Qundalon...

dragonage.fandom.com

Ashkaari Koslun REALLY didn’t get nature, did he

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I mean, that was the first result I got. All I really needed was the cite for him changing numbers. I just clicked on the first result. If I wanted to prove something that had more questions about it, I'd look for a better source.

He was full of it about the list, not so much about the infiltration and the organized attack on certain sectors of the US military and on American culture. As I said McCarthy's problem was his presentation and way of doing things, not so much his accusations.

It's a bit like Gustavo Leigh burning journalists who came to Chile from abroad because some of the soon to be BBQ'd members of their camera crew were SDS types and they used their press credentials to sneak in radicals. He was correct that the Canadian Government and elements of the US and British Governments were sending in left wing agitators...He was wrong for holding a Journalism cook out.

Qunari

The Qunari (literally, "People of the Qun") is the umbrella term most commonly used to describe the white-haired metallic-skinned race of large humanoids and their society that governs the islands of Par Vollen and Seheron, as well as the settlement of Kont-aar in northern Rivain, and Qundalon...

dragonage.fandom.com

Ashkaari Koslun REALLY didn’t get nature, did he

Yes.

Also It's more elephant teenagers that corpse rape..fully mature Bulls don't seem to do that often.

Dolphins do...though apparently?

Basically highly sophisticated warm blooded animals are hardwired to be shitheads...Which is why communism invariably ends in Feudalism, degeneracy, cannibalism and collapse.