The Politicians are just the clowns, not the Enemy.

Simonbob

Well-known member


About 10 years ago, I got involved in Australian politics, and I saw and learned a number of things.

One of those things was the power of the bureaucrats was vastly larger than it seemed. Often, elected officials were not capable of doing anything about the actions of the departments they were in theory, in charge of. This extended from the local Council right through to federal departments, with even the Prime Minister himself having immense problems getting things done.

I'm now told it's the same in the UK. Anybody else got any stories?
 

Jouaint

Well-known member
I do agree one of the important things that is forgotten or just not really talked about is how much of the corruption we see is due to the out of control bureaucracy. One of the important things that the West needs to do to get its countries back under control is to heavily purge the administrative state it has allowed to grow. Dissolve the redundant branches, offices, and departments. Investigate all of them heavily, force the Legislatures to take back the power and responsibilities it ceded to these organizations and fire anyone who resists.

For far to long we have let the bureaucracy resist lawful changes and orders from elected officials if they don't want to implement them they are free to leave.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
One of those things was the power of the bureaucrats was vastly larger than it seemed. Often, elected officials were not capable of doing anything about the actions of the departments they were in theory, in charge of. This extended from the local Council right through to federal departments, with even the Prime Minister himself having immense problems getting things done.

I'm now told it's the same in the UK. Anybody else got any stories?
It's much the same in the Netherlands, and has been for ages. We call this the "regent-culture", after the regent class that had all the political control back in the day. Now, a new regent class has emerged. Internationally, this is coterminous with the term "mandarin class" to describe entrenched bureaucracy.

My grandfather, who had to do business with the government back in the day, often described how he just bypassed the ministerial departments, and went straight to the top bureaucrats to get things done. It was the only way. One top bureaucrat he mentioned in this context governed his department for over thirty years. What the successive ministers wanted was almost entirely meaningless. "The minister comes and the minister goes," he told my grandfather, "but I remain."

(I'd like to stress that the vast majority of politicians aren't victims of this, though, but rather complicit in the scheme. Political functions are handed off to unqualified boot-lickers, in return for loyalty to their party's leadership. They then rely on the bureaucrats to actually govern, which suits them fine. It's an incestuous establishment, where men of good will cannot thrive.)


I do agree one of the important things that is forgotten or just not really talked about is how much of the corruption we see is due to the out of control bureaucracy. One of the important things that the West needs to do to get its countries back under control is to heavily purge the administrative state it has allowed to grow. Dissolve the redundant branches, offices, and departments. Investigate all of them heavily, force the Legislatures to take back the power and responsibilities it ceded to these organizations and fire anyone who resists.

For far to long we have let the bureaucracy resist lawful changes and orders from elected officials if they don't want to implement them they are free to leave.
This will not happens. Most will not even try, and the few who do are mercilessly cut down by the bureaucrats, the other politicians, the media, and all other branches of the established power.

Nothing will really change, until things have gotten so unbelievably bad that the rage of the masses brings forth a populist despot who promises to bring change by way of iron. And this he will do. Then we come to the days of proscription lists and firing squads, and whole departments of bureaucrats getting strangled to death en masse.

Whether that is a desirable development, I leave to the judgement of history. I will say only that the presence of an entrenched elite caste -- which grows ever more parasitical, and which doesn't allow for meaningful change -- will inevitably produce such outcomes in the end.
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
In the UK's case, the Civil Service does a job essentially. True power does still reside for the most part in our lawful officials, it's just that they are too feckless to smack the bureaucrats around the ears and remind them who's in charge.

Edit: They are a symptom, a terrible one at that, but not the cause.
 

*THASF*

The Halo and Sonic Fan
Obozny


About 10 years ago, I got involved in Australian politics, and I saw and learned a number of things.

One of those things was the power of the bureaucrats was vastly larger than it seemed. Often, elected officials were not capable of doing anything about the actions of the departments they were in theory, in charge of. This extended from the local Council right through to federal departments, with even the Prime Minister himself having immense problems getting things done.

I'm now told it's the same in the UK. Anybody else got any stories?


I've been trying to tell people this for a long time, now. The baddies are not elected officials. They are unelected "civil servants", NGOs, supranational institutions, etc.

What makes people think the real oligarchic string-pullers would allow our votes to actually make a difference? If politicians did anything important, they would be appointed, not elected.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
I'm now told it's the same in the UK. Anybody else got any stories?
It is. It is the same in every country that went with the naive ideal of professional, apolitical civil service that is above partisan politics and doesn't "change guard" with every change in ruling party.
That system works very nicely for the first few decades at best, but over that time many people who have agendas that they know would cripple their chances in electoral politics realize that hey, they can go into civil service instead of politics, and then push their agenda through that, while protected from firing by accusing the government of spoiling the totally fair and apolitical civil service who would never push an agenda. Add some more decades and the professional civil service becomes filled with agenda pushing professional deceivers who jealously guard and expand their position and its powers.
 

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