The New Workerist Right’s Industrial Policy Fantasy by Dominic King

Bassoe

Well-known member
source on damagemag
The New Workerist Right’s Industrial Policy Fantasy by Dominic King said:
The new workerist Right (good overview here, good critique here) is composed of serious men saying serious things. They’re not just whining into the digital void about petty cultural issues, like the PMC leftoid grifters from whose ranks they seek to pilfer new writers. They are hatching concrete plans for a renewal of American society, and these plans all circle around two magical words: industrial policy.

This cornerstone of the new Right’s political program is usefully defined by Arthur Herman as “a program of economic reforms that give the government extraordinary authority, as well as fiscal and regulatory powers, to change a country’s industrial structure or—less ambitiously—promote a targeted sector of the economy.” Plenty of European countries have long used such policies—often under the direction of social democratic or labor governments—to help both shore up domestic economic performance and raise the wages and living standards of workers in particular industries.

An industrial policy in and of itself is a welcome intervention, but the first thing to notice about the new Right’s use of it is that it’s embraced as a “responsible” alternative to social welfare, which they see as ultimately damaging to the economy. In an interview with Eric Levitz in New York Magazine, Oren Cass cautions against a generous safety net, which strips away the “rewards of work” and results in a lag in labor force participation. To his credit, Levitz corrects Cass on the reality that labor force participation and a generous welfare state are hardly incompatible; in fact, they may even be positively correlated. There’s nothing incompatible about industrial and welfare policy, and historically they have been deployed together.

Instead of redistributive social programs, Sridhar Kota and Tom Mahoney of American Affairs advocate for the establishment of a “National Manufacturing Foundation,” which would invest in engineering training and research, and ensure that the fruits of domestic innovation result in domestic manufacturing, and thus U.S. job creation. The goal is to restore our “industrial commons” and in so doing, reverse our manufacturing trade deficits, raise American living standards, and “counter China’s rise as the world’s preeminent industrial power.” (“Industrial commons” is a particularly funny neologism which seems to suggest that the halcyon days of capitalist industry were predicated on a fundamental collectivism and not vicious competition.) One can see the appeal of Trump, whose hawkishness on China and promises to revive American industry initially attracted conservative millennials (many have since changed their minds).

The problem here is to think that deindustrialization is a uniquely American phenomenon so easily reversed by an emphasis on economic nationalism. Deindustrialization is not a function of a lack of necessary investment in productive capacities but instead an outcome of endogenous pressures generated by the basic laws of profit and competition. The new Right’s solution seems to assume that reindustrialization is simply a matter of investing in research to shore up “our core production skills, infrastructure, and capabilities.” But what good are those skills and infrastructural capacities without any pressure to produce a competitive manufacturing sector?

It’s not that American capitalists lack the skilled workforce, innovative techniques, factory infrastructure, or willpower to produce cars, toasters, and iPhones today; it’s that global competition forces the capitalist to invest in the cheapest labor supply available and then further to make that labor hyper-productive: either by sweating workers to the brink of exhaustion or by automating as much of the labor process as possible. Nowhere do the authors confront this problem. Much of what Kota and Mahoney argue for is more investment in R&D for industrial design in the hopes that this investment would stimulate domestic production. It’s surely possible that this kind of program could help a few fledging “hardware start-ups,” as they call them, but the assumption that investments in research and development lead to expansions of production has the equation exactly backwards—it’s massive production boosts that generate new productive capacities and investments in industrial research. Far from reorganizing our industrial structure, then, this program leaves the very pressures that generate automation and deindustrialization in the first place intact.
There is yet another problem. Even if we managed to suspend the laws of profit-maximization through massive government subsidies to automobile, appliance, and other consumer manufacturing and we saw something of a Made in USA boom, who is going to buy all of the things produced by the next American industrial revolution?

Part of the answer is undoubtedly American workers, whose purchasing capacity will purportedly grow once they trade in their low-productivity jobs in the service sector for high-productivity ones in manufacturing. But the primary answer, frighteningly ready-to-hand for the new Right, is the military. While the “Chinese have been out-planning, outspending, and out-resourcing the United States—sometimes with the help of our own high-tech industry—to build the defense industrial base of the future,” Herman argues, our own defense supply chain reveals “an alarming dependency on foreign nations, especially China.” Manufacturing for economic prosperity, for family stability, but mostly manufacturing “to shore up our own decaying defense industrial base.”

Leaving aside the obvious lunacy of further padding a military budget that exceeds that of the next ten countries combined, this industrial plan fails even as an economic strategy. First, an industrial policy focused primarily on manufacturing in the service of “defense,” however broadly construed, is inherently self-limiting. Even if the United States continues its endless wars abroad, contemporary warfare employs progressively fewer and smaller vehicles, weapons, and ammunition. That means less demand for steel, iron, and aluminum for fewer tanks, planes, and ships. The reason our naval fleet slowly rots has less to do with a lack of interest in maintaining naval supremacy and more with a lack of any real need to do so, as warfare today relies increasingly on high-tech, high-efficiency, often remote-controlled fleets of vehicles manned by fewer soldiers. Such a narrowly constructed industrial aim would not produce the forward and backward linkages in the economy necessary to generate major wage gains across region and sector.

An industrial policy is a great idea, but how it is implemented, and to what end, matters both politically and economically. Imagine a real infrastructure bill—not the current bipartisan privatization plan but a policy designed to produce fleets of electric buses and improve the efficiency of solar panels for the federal government, lay thousands of miles of rail, rebuild schools, bridges, highways, all while making use of the power of the congressional purse in what Christian Parenti calls “the big green buy.” No doubt hard-minded conservatives balk at the mention of climate concerns, puffed up by the Right as the stalking horse for crazy leftwing idealism. So for those who think staving off climate disasters is the least of our concerns: by anyone’s account, manufacturing is only one sector—others being construction, agriculture, transportation, and energy—that requires transformation as part of the vast infrastructure modernization program we need right now. This program, rather than the sclerotic defense spending of the new Right, would bolster heavy industry, and the linkages created by such massive construction and industrial projects would not only raise wages but also develop innumerable smaller manufacturing and service needs. The Chinese did exactly this when they embarked on their massive rail and nuclear expansions, and the wages and expansion of productive capacities generated by those projects created a massive new working class with higher wages throughout the economy and helped the Chinese survive the global economic meltdown.
Ironically the Right’s anti-environmentalism prevents them from conceiving of a robust industrial renewal. As much as they talk about the future, it’s clear that they’re much more interested in a return to the past, when manufacturing dynamism undergirded the Fordist family and a rapidly growing security state. That vision is very appropriate for the expanding consumer society of the 1950s, but it’s extremely myopic for meeting America’s infrastructural needs today.

But at the end of the day, it’s not really necessary for the new workerist Right’s industrial policy to make sense. It’s done its job if it gives the right appearance to these very serious men—if it gives them papers to put in their briefcases, and phrases like R&D to burp up on command. The ones that act the part convincingly will be sucked up by the conservative foundation world to write public statements that more senior serious men (like Marco Rubio and Jeff Sessions) will sign. It’s all about filling a niche, so that when Republicans want that pro-worker sheen without relying on the same old bromides, they’ve got some ostensibly new bromides to trot out. The new workerist Right’s industrial policy is a fantasy, but it’s a fantasy with a point.
AKA, a rare trace of sense from the mainstream Right Wing, that ‘get a job and pull yourself up by your bootstraps’ only works if jobs paying sufficiently to allow doing so are available in sufficient numbers to make such a course of action practical.
 

Morphic Tide

Well-known member
Yeah, there's a ton of awkwardness with how inflation's been interacting with wages. Some rather dramatic luxuries have become absolutely dirt-cheap. Housing, by entirely natural market forces, only ever comes down in price by serious economic downturn. The government does desperately need to pass regulations to stabilize food prices to avoid another round of Great Depression style famine where the farms drive themselves bankrupt by overproduction.

But the details on this make it so getting to the breakpoint where you're actually moving forward with your life is a torturous mess. None of those luxuries are any kind of certainty as a business expense, as consumer electronics are a whole different ball game from server equipment, and that market space is insanely volatile. To the point that a dominant business model is "get a decent proof of concept done, then be bought by Google".

Housing's been fucked over seven ways from Sunday by the combination of the already-implied indefinite investors, who can get some money while owning the building thanks to rent, those investors joining forces with NIMBYs, having their own seats in the political apparatus responsible for regulation, and bribing the general crop of politicos, as well as the well in excess of any utility degree of urbanization. These all combine to make housing's forecast be "You will live in a pod" if you're within fifty miles of what is currently a suburb, just from seemingly-inevitable cost increases and profit-seeking.

As for food? Government looks at overall inflation. Not wages over time. Their interest is in preventing food riots, so until they're forced to see the issue by such occurring from the skew of how inflation's been working recently they aren't going to adjust their weights to get food prices down enough for urban grocers to come back, if real estate prices and slum criminality will ever allow that to happen. The "good enough" is a terrible mess, the alternative is famine from wild overproduction of food leading to cratering prices leading to farm bankruptcy leading to the food supply vanishing. We're already feeding like a third of the world while at somewhere around a quarter capacity, and these methods are unsustainable so the unused farmland is a vital reserve.
 

ParadiseLost

Well-known member
The real answer is to stop beating around the bush and propose real policies and achievable goals.

The goal isn't industrial expansion, its to grow the power of the American Middle Class.

The goal isn't to increase native manufacturing, but to stop Chinese Manufacturing. It doesn't really matter if we're sourcing stuff from Vietnam, Haiti, Pakistan, and Nigeria. But all of the things coming from China is a problem.

And if you realize that this isn't above improving ourselves but instead strengthening the middle class and maintaining America's economic dominance, the answers become pretty obvious. Investing in corporate R&D is pointless because it has nothing to do with any of the real goals - America already dominates R&D to a hilarious degree. (Any Economist who believes that a lack of R&D money is why American manufacturing is failing should give up their degree).

What you really want is protectionism (in some industries), and especially protection of ownership/control of important corporations. Additionally, get foreigners out of American real estate. Place limiters to prevent too much stock market speculation.

Also, repeal laws/regulations that make larger companies more efficient than smaller ones.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
The goal isn't to increase native manufacturing, but to stop Chinese Manufacturing. It doesn't really matter if we're sourcing stuff from Vietnam, Haiti, Pakistan, and Nigeria. But all of the things coming from China is a problem.
That still keeps some of the problems with having manufacturing in China, nevermind that some countries like Pakistan are China's allies anyway.
Namely, when push comes to shove, they will prioritize their own interests, their quality standards aren't necessarily better than China's, and they would still out price any first world workers with semi slave labor level wages. For the sake of costs further down the chain, its either that or automation, and out of these two problems everyone would much rather have automation preferred over mad cheap labor, whether insourced or outsourced, in the grand scheme of things.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
The problem with this is the same problem with any massive government program that's trying to fix an economic problem: No one knows what the future will hold and require. Or more accurately, some people do, but as a practical matter the only way to figure out who does isn't by reasoned analysis but to wait and see what happens. It's the classic economic problem of socialism: its command economy will always fail, because there simply isn't any way to predict the future. Free markets are efficient, and that efficiency has real, actual value to people that lifts them out of absolute poverty (as opposed to relative poverty, which is in relation to others, absolute poverty is the inability to accomplish concrete goals because of lack of funds, like feeding oneself, affording shelter, etc).

On top of that, a) money is hardly the only problem in the way of infrastructure, red tape and requirements are a huge part of the problem, and b) who's to say that the infrastructure of today will help tomorrow? What if the manufacturing process goes obsolete?

And the big one c) what's the real problem here? China isn't focused on expanding manufacturing, but is trying to get more into innovation and service. Because that's the way to go. Manufacturing isn't some great end all be all, but steps on the way to prosperity.
 

Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
Nuke Mod
Moderator
Staff Member
The problem is the average middle class individual gets their bread and butter from manufacturing not R&D.

R&D was overblown as the 'replacement' for manufacturing by corporations so they could get china into the WTO and get jobs there to line their pockets.
 
Last edited:

Doomsought

Well-known member
I think the most harmful economic idea in recent history, probably since marx defecated his works out, was the romanticization of the "Service Economy".

Small island nations, an Hawaii have a service economy. That is why are poor. Spain converted to a service economy because they had so much gold they didn't need industry during the age of sail, that is why Spain hasn't mattered since their empire collapsed.

The service economy is not womething which should be sought after, it should be considered a category of failure.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
I think the most harmful economic idea in recent history, probably since marx defecated his works out, was the romanticization of the "Service Economy".

Small island nations, an Hawaii have a service economy. That is why are poor. Spain converted to a service economy because they had so much gold they didn't need industry during the age of sail, that is why Spain hasn't mattered since their empire collapsed.

The service economy is not womething which should be sought after, it should be considered a category of failure.
A lot wrong here. Like a shitton.

The UK? That's a small island nation. Spoilers: It ain't poor.

How did it make much of it's money? Service economy, especially banks and trading. Yes, the industrial revolution was also a big part, but currently, 79% of its economy is service oriented, and that's not an issue for it.

Second, the idea that somehow they didn't need industry now that they had gold ignores that Spain (nor any other European country to that point) never had much of a manufacturing economy. Also, where do you get the idea that Spain became a service economy during/around the age of sail? AFAIK, it remained an agricultural economy for the most part into the early 1900s.

Finally, what is it with the fetishization of the manufacturing economy? It's just another way to make money.
 

Robovski

Well-known member
I would argue that a financial service economy is not the same as most "service economies" Making money off of money? Very viable. Making money off of customer service? Not so much.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
I would argue that a financial service economy is not the same as most "service economies" Making money off of money? Very viable. Making money off of customer service? Not so much.
Service economy != customer service.

IBM views itself in the service economy (they build computers, yes, but most of the profit apparently comes from keeping them up and running all the time). Cloud service providers are the service economy. Google is almost entirely in the service economy. Amazon? Service economy.

Let's walk through an average day. You go to work in your car. The car was created and manufactured (manufacturing), but you've occasionally brought it to the mechanic (service economy). You get paid via direct deposit to your bank (service). You go and buy dinner from the grocery store. That grocery store is a service, the trucker who brought it was in the service economy, and the person who made the food wasn't in manufacturing, but the third sector (usually called the first sector) agriculture (sometimes combined with other raw materials), which was turned processed and packaged how you like (manufacturing). You get home, turn on the Tv (manufacturing to make), and watch a show (service) about a doctor (who if they were real, would work in the service economy).

All in all, there's nothing special about manufacturing. Yes, there's some manufacturing that's critical, but that's true for service and agriculture too. There's also plenty of middle class jobs in service economies just like in manufacturing, like trucking, basic programming, nursing, teaching, etc.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
The UK? That's a small island nation. Spoilers: It ain't poor.
No its not, its a large island nation. A small island nation is Puerto Rico, which has a service economy based on tourism.

All in all, there's nothing special about manufacturing. Yes, there's some manufacturing that's critical, but that's true for service and agriculture too. There's also plenty of middle class jobs in service economies just like in manufacturing, like trucking, basic programming, nursing, teaching, etc.
Yes there is. Actual wealth is goods; by definition the manufacturing sector is the only part of the economy that actually creates wealth. All other forms of economic activity only redistribute wealth.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
No its not, its a large island nation. A small island nation is Puerto Rico, which has a service economy based on tourism.
So first, Puerto Rico isn't even a nation. But moving on from this:
Singapore: Actually a small island nation (yes, Singapore itself is its own island), and made it's money off of trade (and now finance), which is service sector.

See, again, your problem isn't the service sector, but a specific subset that you don't like. And on top of this, you don't seem to have put thought into why island nations don't go into manufacturing, which is that it's economically infeasible. They don't have much land, and thus not much chance at having useful raw materials, and thus any manufacturing would need both the materials shipped in and out, when it's cheaper to just not do that. Especially when Tourism works decently well.
 

Largo

Well-known member
Yes there is. Actual wealth is goods; by definition the manufacturing sector is the only part of the economy that actually creates wealth. All other forms of economic activity only redistribute wealth.
It doesn't matter how many goods you actually make if you can't get it to the people who need and can make use of it, you know.

Take the most basic good of all, food. Producing enough food to actually feed everyone in the world is more or less a solved problem at this point. But hunger still exists because the problem of food distribution is in fact a far more difficult problem than actually growing the food, and this is just addressing the issue of providing food let alone the food that you or I actually consume that Third Worlders don't get access to. Multiply this by a million other wants and needs and you have the service economy.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
Take the most basic good of all, food.
First off, food is not a good in the context we are talking about, it is a consumable (it lacks permanence)

Secondly, you are not talking about a service economy, a service economy is one which has only services in the exclusion of manufacturing.

Without manufacturing to create goods to distribute, services can do nothing but create a circlejerk.

Consumables do not create permanent wealth, they only provide subsistence.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Secondly, you are not talking about a service economy, a service economy is one which has only services in the exclusion of manufacturing.
So this too is wrong. A service economy is one that is majority (or perhaps a significant plurality) service. It doesn't need to be all of it.

Without manufacturing to create goods to distribute, services can do nothing but create a circlejerk.
And this too is wrong. One doesn't need to have a manufacturing economy (or really nearly any manufacturing) in a nation if you trade with a nation that does. It also shows a complete ignorance of how the manufacturing and service jobs rely on each other as well, as without service jobs, there's no transportation for the materials or products of manufacturing, no one to sell them, no one to service the tools that operate them, etc. Yes, this could all be brought in house by the company, but it's just not as efficient.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
It also shows a complete ignorance of how the manufacturing and service jobs rely on each other as well,
You fucking liar. I said services can only redistribute wealth at the start of this. You also lied about Singapore, they do not have a service economy, they have a healthy manufacturing sector producing microelectronics and petroleum.
. One doesn't need to have a manufacturing economy (or really nearly any manufacturing) in a nation if you trade with a nation that does.
A nation that does not produce anything has nothing to trade. The result of this course of events is always poverty.
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
Having a healthy manufacturing (if not heavy industry) sector of your economy is just pure common sense. Economically speaking, putting all your eggs in one basket (as many nations have done with the service economy) is practically suicidal. There's no law saying you can't have both.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
You fucking liar. I said services can only redistribute wealth at the start of this. You also lied about Singapore, they do not have a service economy, they have a healthy manufacturing sector producing microelectronics and petroleum.
First, services don't only redistributing wealth (if that's what you want to call trade, which is different). Repairing stuff isn't moving wealth around, nor is most financial services, as that wealth is invested instead of being left to do nothing. Hiring a construction firm to build something on your land makes that construction part of the service sector too.

And as we can see from this, manufacturing makes up about 20% of Singapores GDP, while if we total the various service economies, (which is everything else not agriculture and construction) we get around 70%, which makes them a service economy, not manufacturing.

So no, I'm not a 'fucking liar', you're just talking nonsense, as you don't know enough about economics.


A nation that does not produce anything has nothing to trade. The result of this course of events is always poverty.
And again we hit another problem you don't seem to get that the idea of a service job vs a manufacturing one isn't a clear distinction between producing and non producing, and that they work hand in hand. Cellular networks and SpaceX putting satellites into space are service jobs, while Hollywood movie companies were arguably in manufacturing when they make films, but are now turning it into service by offering them on a subscription service.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
Hiring a construction firm to build something on your land makes that construction part of the service sector too.
No, construction is manufacturing
And as we can see from this, manufacturing makes up about 20% of Singapores GDP, while if we total the various service economies, (which is everything else not agriculture and construction) we get around 70%, which makes them a service economy, not manufacturing.
No, its a mixed economy, you are just moving the goalposts
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
No, its a mixed economy, you are just moving the goalposts
... That's not goalpost movement by me. A service economy is one where there's a large majority of service. I called Britian a service economy also in a prior post on this very page (here), citing evidence that they were 79% service. This is what a service economy looks like. Now you are saying I'm moving goalposts by calling Singapore with 80% of gdp in service a service economy? I'm not the liar here.

No, construction is manufacturing
Eh, personally I'd say hiring a company to do X makes them service, not manufacturing, but wikipedia says otherwise, as apparently construction is its own special section of manufacturing, on top of providing a usable finished product.

Regardless, construction was about 4%, so it's still about 75:25 service:industry in Singapore, which is a service economy.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top