Star Wars The Mandalorian

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
The Armorer actually seems like a pretty nice Lady overall even if her Cult is full of nuttery practices.

Also Bo Katan being better with the Blade I suppose shouldn't be an auto qualification for being top Mandalore or whatever. As we also saw The Armorer is far more proficient with the Darksaber and while Din could be like "Look at me. I'm da Mandalore now" the Armorer has demonstrated a martial superiority to Din... At least when he's using the Darksaber.

But the Armorer has also declined shoving said Darksaber up Dins apostate ass for his many antics as well when it seems fairly evident she could do just that. Something to consider since I keep hearing people say he could just Boss the Armorer around now since he's technically top Mandalorian instead of putting up with her seeming nonsense.
 
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ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
There is nothing reasonable or smart about the watch. Points at having a ceremony in water they didn't check for Kaiju. These are not the people that should lead anything. All they are is a cult.

Given that the water ceremony is specifically mirroring the Living Waters in the Mines of Mandalore, which is a mythosaur lair, there's a good chance that the presence of a mythosaur-substitute in the water is a necessary element for their religious beliefs. It doesn't look like they intentionally woke it up, but given how much of a warrior culture they are, I can absolutely believe that "baptized in the waters of a hyperpredator's lair" is as intended. This is, I think, supported by the fact that the Mandalorians clearly intended to fight it off rather than retreat.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Yep! Ostracization is a thing in any religion.

There have been so many terrible and sad examples with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Scientologists when someone essentially escapes them.

If he was truly ostracized in the way practiced by actual culty-religions, he would have been stripped of his gear and dumped outside, and shot on sight if he ever came back. The Armorer is still talking to Din, and they apparently didn't take him off the secret mailing list since he knew where they were.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
The Armorer actually seems like a pretty nice Lady overall even if her Cult is full of nuttery practices.

Also Bo Katan being better with the Blade I suppose shouldn't be an auto qualification for being top Mandalore or whatever. As we also saw The Armorer is far more proficient with the Darksaber and while Din could be like "Look at me. I'm da Mandalore now" the Armorer has demonstrated a martial superiority to Din... At least when he's using the Darksaber.

But the Armorer has also declined shoving said Darksaber up Dins apostate ass for his many antics as well when it seems fairly evident she could do just that. Something to consider since I keep hearing people say he could just Boss the Armorer around now since he's technically top Mandalorian instead of putting up with her seeming nonsense.
All Cult Leaders seem like nice people until their doctirine is challenged. Then their show nature comes out. It is how is always is with Cult Leaders. And I suspect this will happen with the Armorer as well. They are practically setting it up.

Given that the water ceremony is specifically mirroring the Living Waters in the Mines of Mandalore, which is a mythosaur lair, there's a good chance that the presence of a mythosaur-substitute in the water is a necessary element for their religious beliefs. It doesn't look like they intentionally woke it up, but given how much of a warrior culture they are, I can absolutely believe that "baptized in the waters of a hyperpredator's lair" is as intended. This is, I think, supported by the fact that the Mandalorians clearly intended to fight it off rather than retreat.
Then they are fools and their Cult is rightly a fringe group shunned by other Mandos.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
All Cult Leaders seem like nice people until their doctirine is challenged. Then their show nature comes out. It is how is always is with Cult Leaders. And I suspect this will happen with the Armorer as well. They are practically setting it up.
The Children clearly adhere to a fairly extreme version of Mandalorianism, but they do not come off nearly as fanatical as you're asserting. If they were remotely that fanatical, they would have taken Din's armor and the Darksaber away from him after he admitted to having removed his helmet, and his exile would be much more aggressively enforced.

Then they are fools and their Cult is rightly a fringe group shunned by other Mandos.
Per Bo-Katan, even the New Mandalorians still used the Living Waters for traditional ceremonies.
 
The Armorer actually seems like a pretty nice Lady overall even if her Cult is full of nuttery practices.

Also Bo Katan being better with the Blade I suppose shouldn't be an auto qualification for being top Mandalore or whatever. As we also saw The Armorer is far more proficient with the Darksaber and while Din could be like "Look at me. I'm da Mandalore now" the Armorer has demonstrated a martial superiority to Din... At least when he's using the Darksaber.

But the Armorer has also declined shoving said Darksaber up Dins apostate ass for his many antics as well when it seems fairly evident she could do just that. Something to consider since I keep hearing people say he could just Boss the Armorer around now since he's technically top Mandalorian instead of putting up with her seeming nonsense.

Keep in mind these guys are a space hybrid of vikings Spartans and Romans baptism by combat seems pretty standard for the territory.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
The Children clearly adhere to a fairly extreme version of Mandalorianism, but they do not come off nearly as fanatical as you're asserting. If they were remotely that fanatical, they would have taken Din's armor and the Darksaber away from him after he admitted to having removed his helmet, and his exile would be much more aggressively enforced.


Per Bo-Katan, even the New Mandalorians still used the Living Waters for traditional ceremonies.
They could have tried to take his Armor but Grogu would have beat the every lover crap out of them. And they know it. So they let Dinn go. As to the Living Waters. No one thought the Mythosaur was still alive. Remember everyone thought they were extinct. Aka if you think something is extinct you aren't gonna be scared of going in water it use to live in. It would be like me going into the woods near my house fearing I would be attacked by a Short Faced Bear. Even though they have been extinct in SC for 10,000 years.

 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
The New Republic deserved to fail, and now I see why the First Order was able to get so many recruits, despite Operation Cinder.
The New Republic, despite its attempts at a few reforms (including that bizzare "rotating capitol" idea, IIRC?), just repeated the same mistakes of the Old Republic.

They even turned on Leia, "officially"/politically, once they found out she was Darth Vader's daughter.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member

The linked article is written by a self-described "ex-Catholic" who describes all of Catholicism as a radical cult, and who explicitly uses everyone who is pro-life as an example of the supposed real life version of the Children of the Watch.

In short: only a complete fucking retard would be happy to read that drivel.

(Mind you, it can be argued that the Children of the Watch are a cult, but the author of that article has no clue about the subject, and smply adheres to the radical-progressive "all conservatives are cultists and BAAAAAD!!!!" bullshit. Additionally, from the new episode, the series doesn't really seem to enforce the CotW-as-evil-cultists interpretation, either-- at least not yet.)

If anything, they seem like cool people by the end, with the Vizsla guy being the one exception. And the plot going foward may well be that he's the one making trouble, and Din and/or Bo Katan will have to defeat him, before leading the CotW to become the core of a Mandalorian revival movement.

The latter presumably to be portrayed as a good thing.


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The New Republic, despite its attempts at a few reforms (including that bizzare "rotating capitol" idea, IIRC?), just repeated the same mistakes of the Old Republic.

They even turned on Leia, "officially"/politically, once they found out she was Darth Vader's daughter.

I think @Bacle is specifically referencing the new episode, which depicts the New Republic as both incompetent and malicious. Not to mention ludicrously hypocritical.

If you take everything about the New Republic in the old EU -- all its accomplishments, all its dedication to principles, all its willingness to actually build a functional government -- and you just throw that out and do the exact opposite... then you have the Disney canon's New Republic.

They compromise their principles, but not even to supposedly "get things done"; because they only become less efficient. If "stupid, malicious bureaucracy" was distilled into a political entity, it would be Disney canon's New Republic.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
The New Republic, despite its attempts at a few reforms (including that bizzare "rotating capitol" idea, IIRC?), just repeated the same mistakes of the Old Republic.

They even turned on Leia, "officially"/politically, once they found out she was Darth Vader's daughter.
And as the New Republic and the First Order immolated themselves, the Imperial Remnant sat on the sidelines laughing and knocking back a few drinks.
Just watch the latest episode; the NR is making the Imperials seem less hypocritical than them.

Like, compared to how Legends NR treated Imperial defectors, Canon NR is damn near Orwellian in how they treat anyone who served the Empire.
I think @Bacle is specifically referencing the new episode, which depicts the New Republic as both incompetent and malicious. Not to mention ludicrously hypocritical.

If you take everything about the New Republic in the old EU -- all its accomplishments, all its dedication to principles, all its willingness to actually build a functional government -- and you just throw that out and do the exact opposite... then you have the Disney canon's New Republic.

They compromise their principles, but not even to supposedly "get things done"; because they only become less efficient. If "stupid, malicious bureaucracy" was distilled into a political entity, it would be Disney canon's New Republic.
I am rather disappointed in how Canon NR is shown to act, and frankly it feel like a farce designed to shred any love of the NR in the fanbase.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Just watch the latest episode; the NR is making the Imperials seem less hypocritical than them.

Like, compared to how Legends NR treated Imperial defectors, Canon NR is damn near Orwellian in how they treat anyone who served the Empire.

I am rather disappointed in how Canon NR is shown to act, and frankly it feel like a farce designed to shred any love of the NR in the fanbase.

It's truly staggering how dumb they are. If we remember those awful Aftermath books, the New Republic appers to have decided:

1. Anyone who agrees to surrender is pardoned, everybody else get death.

2. And now we're going to scrap our fleet.

3. Oh shit, oh fuck, warlords everywhere! And they have nothing to lose, because we said "no surrenders after date [x]", so they all fight to the last!

4. Also, we have no good fleet!

5. Should be we build a new fleet? NO! That's what NAZIS do!

6. Instead, we'll accept surrenders again. But we'll give them all useless make-work Keynesian jobs, and zero opportunities for advancement.

7. Also, we'll start doing some ultra-creepy things, because that's NOT what nazis do. Not at ALL.

8. Okay, we need people to help us with the creepy totally-not-evil-stuff. Hey, we could get ex-Imperials to help us with that! No way that'll go wrong!

9. But we're NEVER using Imperial tech, and instead we're just scrapping it all.

10. What an excellent Orwellian secret police we have, fully staffed by ex-Imperials, and-- WHERE THE FUCK DID ALL THESE FIRST ORDER INFILTRATORS COME FROM?!



It's unbelievable.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Just watch the latest episode; the NR is making the Imperials seem less hypocritical than them.

Like, compared to how Legends NR treated Imperial defectors, Canon NR is damn near Orwellian in how they treat anyone who served the Empire.

I am rather disappointed in how Canon NR is shown to act, and frankly it feel like a farce designed to shred any love of the NR in the fanbase.
We saw a glimpse of this in season 2 with how they treated Mayfield,. They had droids acting as Slave Overseeres. It was all Mon Mothma's fault. She was the worst person to lead the New Republic. Because she was an Old Republic Senator. She brought the same old uncaring ways to a later era.
 
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ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
I think it's a realistic take; the "leadership" of the Alliance to Restore the Republic was heavily dominated by the same "rich, important, and powerful" Core World interests that had dominated the Old Republic, so it absolutely makes sense that the New Republic directly repeated the corruption of the Old.

It's unbelievable.

I disagree, it's totally believable. It absolutely follows the well-proven real life pattern that successful revolutions are typically followed by successor governments that are overall worse than the "tyranny" they displaced, because they don't know how to govern.

Even the EU had elements of this with the Bel Iblis / Mon Mothma conflict, but then wrote it out of canon with a complete BS cop-out ending ("Mon Mothma wasn't really power hungry, she was just too caring and responsible to be willing to trust anyone else with power! So it doesn't count, everyone forgave her, and they lived happily ever after!")
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
The New Republic, despite its attempts at a few reforms (including that bizzare "rotating capitol" idea, IIRC?), just repeated the same mistakes of the Old Republic.

I actually liked that idea. Since centralization of power to Coruscant was *the* primary factor in the rise of the Empire, measures meant to prevent repeat centralization of power to the Galactic capital and Core World interests are pretty much the ONLY good thing the New Republic even tried to accomplish.

In the long term, I think the best possible outcome for the GFFA is in fact the elimination of any pretense at government on a larger scale than individual systems or *maybe* the smaller sectors. Anything larger than that is just inherently unstable and corrupt, because it's ultimately just local interests using the central authority to bash each other.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Oh, boy -- there's the misguided "Mon Mothma is EVIL" bullshit again.

Fellows, a specific group of people keeps repeating that nonsense, but also says it about the old EU version (where it's definitely not true). And in the Disney version, it also seems unlikely, because Mon Mothma is stated to have died of illness relatively shortly after the New Republic was established. So in fact, her absence seems to be the cause of the problems...

The whole motivation for this bullshit fanon (that some people doggedly try to peddle as supposedly canonical) very much appears to be an attempt to smear the New Republic in all its incarnations. And somehow the argument is always "Mon Mothma BAD!"

But the New Republic in the old EU (where Mon Mothma was Chief of State for many years) did fucking great. The New Republic in Disney canon (where Mon Mothma is dead) instead fails utterly.

Really makes you wonder...
 
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Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Oh, boy -- there's the misguided "Mon Mothma is EVIL" bullshit again.

Fellows, a specific group of people keeps repeating that nonsense, but also says it about the old EU version (where it's definitely not true). And in the Disney version, it also seems unlikely, because Mon Mothma is stated to have died of illness relatively shortly after the New Republic was established. So in fact, her absence seems to be the cause of the problems...

The whole motivation for this bullshit fanon (that some peopl doggedly try to peddle as suppoedly canonical) very much appears to be an attempt to smear the New Republic in all its incarnations. And somehow the argument is always "Mon Mothma BAD!"

But the New Republic in the old EU (where Mon Mothma was Chief of State for many years) did fucking great. The New Republic in Disney canon (where Mon Mothma is dead) instead fails utterly.

Really makes you wonder...
So you're saying it's all Mon Mothma's fault? If she hadn't let herself die things would have gone so much better...
 

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