Star Wars The Mandalorian

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
*sigh* If we're going to repeat this debate:

What is straight up (EU) canon is that originally, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and Garm Bel Iblis were the three founding leaders of the Rebel Alliance, forming essentially a leading triumvirate with equal power. Mothma and Bel Iblis often clashed because even though all three were Senators, Mothma was fundamentally a career politician whereas Bel Iblis was fundamentally a military commander; Organa was generally the one who smoothed things out.

And this worked pretty well until Organa got vaporized with Alderaan, at which point Mothma heavily concentrated power in herself. This led to a confrontation in which she very explicitly kicked Bel Iblis out of the Alliance for refusing to send his troops on a suicide mission in deference to her self-appointed authority as sole leader:

"Do you understand me? I will not send my troops on a suicide attack. And I do not recognize your authority to order them to. I did not vote to place you in charge of the Alliance, and if Bail did, then he was gravely mistaken."

"Senator Bel Iblis, I sincerely hope that was not an ultimatum."

"Yes, I guess it is. This attack plan is fundamentally flawed, and you just don't have the expertise to know it."

"I will not have ultimatums put to me, Senator. The Rebel Alliance will no longer require your services."

That is a direct quote from the canon short story "Differences of Opinion", published in Star Wars: The Last Command Sourcebook.

Mothma pushed ahead with the attack she wanted after Bel Iblis departed, and the result was a bloody disaster for the Alliance. Just as Bel Iblis had said, the Imperial base on Milvayne was a heavily defended Ubiqtorate base and the forces the Rebels were able to muster for the attack were simply insufficient. After this Bel Iblis continued to fight the Empire on his own, independently of the Alliance and then for six years into the New Republic Era.

The ultimate resolution of this in the Thrawn books held that Bel Iblis rejoined the New Republic when he was ultimately convinced that Mon Mothma had good intentions. NOT that he was wrong about her grabbing power for herself, but that it was forgivable because the *reason* she was grabbing power was not simply ambition for herself.

So basically, Bel Iblis was canonically wrong that Mon Mothma wanted to simply replace the Emperor with herself. He was, however, absolutely correct that she had appointed herself sole leader of the Alliance after Organa's death, and that she was literally willing to send Rebel forces on a suicide mission for no gain other than, "If I cancel the mission, I have to admit I was wrong. That's not acceptable, they're just going to have to die for the sake of my authority."

Aside from the direct quote I provided, you can confirm that it's not just me saying this by looking at the relevant sections of the Wookiepedia articles about Mon Mothma and Garm bel Iblis.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
So you're saying it's all Mon Mothma's fault? If she hadn't let herself die things would have gone so much better...

Obviously! That must be it! 😂


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But seriously, there's certain members on this site -- and elsewhere -- who insist on making their fanon into supposed canon. No matter how often the arguments have been hashed out, they endlessly repeat the same cherry-picked selective examples, cite quotes out of context, repeat their opinion as if it the bare fact...

And why? Because of some autistic obsession. I'm sure. The big irony being that the Disney canon actually shows the New Republic to be exactly the failure that the old EU version wasn't, but this only illustrates how different the two examples really are. Which is funny, because we could all be gloating about the trash fire that is the Disney canon together. :devilish:


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Putting the matter of "retarded obsessive fanon ideas" aside entirely, I do wonder how we might plausibly extrapolate what we see in The Mandalorian into the setting's future. What we see in the sequels makes even less sense now, because... why would the rabid First Order be the sensible play for the Imperials here? Given this kind of New Republic, the Imperials could realistically just set up a Neo-Imperial state with generally moderate iterations of Imperial ideology (so: like Pellaeon's Imperial Remnant), and countless worlds would join them voluntarily!

If Thrawn shows up in this scenario (assuming he's not also turned into a brain-dead moron), he should be able to take over the galaxy almost at once. Quite possibly without firing a single shot; merely by talking more sense than the New Republic. But even barring that... it's completely implausible that this New Republic would last even a few years, let alone several decades. Supposedly, there's two main parties in the New Republic later on, with one wanting more centralism. Given what we see here, that entire faction would immediately join any non-insane Imperial claimant.

This means that, retro-actively, the most retarded thing about the sequels is that the New Republic exists at all, during that period. They could have convincingly explained the whole "Resistance" thing by just outright saying "the New Republic never coalesced into a functional state, and became a still-born dream".
 
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The linked article is written by a self-described "ex-Catholic" who describes all of Catholicism as a radical cult, and who explicitly uses everyone who is pro-life as an example of the supposed real life version of the Children of the Watch.

In short: only a complete fucking retard would be happy to read that drivel.

(Mind you, it can be argued that the Children of the Watch are a cult, but the author of that article has no clue about the subject, and smply adheres to the radical-progressive "all conservatives are cultists and BAAAAAD!!!!" bullshit. Additionally, from the new episode, the series doesn't really seem to enforce the CotW-as-evil-cultists interpretation, either-- at least not yet.)

my bad I guess I didn't read the whole article properly
Obviously! That must be it! 😂


--------------------------------------------------


But seriously, there's certain members on this site -- and elsewhere -- who insist on making their fanon into supposed canon. No matter how often the arguments have been hashed out, they endlessly repeat the same cherry-picked selective examples, cite quotes out of context, repeat their opinion as if it the bare fact...

And why? Because of some autistic obsession. I'm sure. The big irony being that the Disney canon actually shows the New Republic to be exactly the failure that the old EU version wasn't, but this only illustrates how different the two examples really are. Which is funny, because we could all be gloating about the trash fire that is the Disney canon together. :devilish:


--------------------------------------------------


Putting the matter of "retarded obsessive fanon ideas" aside entirely, I do wonder how we might plausibly extrapolate what we see in The Mandalorian into the setting's future. What we see in the sequels makes even less sense now, because... why would the rabid First Order be the sensible play for the Imperials here? Given this kind of New Republic, the Imperials could realistically just set up a Neo-Imperial state with generally moderate iterations of Imperial ideology (so: like Pellaeon's Imperial Remnant), and countless worlds would join them voluntarily!

If Thrawn shows up in this scenario (assuming he's not also turned into a brain-dead moron), he should be able to take over the galaxy almost at once. Quite possibly without firing a single shot; merely by talking more sense than the New Republic. But even barring that... it's completely implausible that this New Republic would last even a few years, let alone several decades. Supposedly, there's two main parties in the New Republic later on, with one wanting more centralism. Given what we see here, that entire faction would immediately join any non-insane Imperial claimant.

This means that, retro-actively, the most retarded thing about the sequels is that the New Republic exists at all, during that period. They could have convincingly explained the whole "Resistance" thing by just outright saying "the New Republic never coalesced into a functional state, and became a still-born dream".

that would have actually been interesting to watch. honestly when it got leaked that one of the main charecters was going to be a good stormtrooper I kinda hoped we'd see a good imperial remenent (Like maybe a 501st that does hummanitairn efforts for the planets still recovering from the war (kinda like what the 501st do IRL) and maybe a more nuanced star wars, but no we got the same ol story.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
my bad I guess I didn't read the whole article properly


that would have actually been interesting to watch. honestly when it got leaked that one of the main charecters was going to be a good stormtrooper I kinda hoped we'd see a good imperial remenent (Like maybe a 501st that does hummanitairn efforts for the planets still recovering from the war (kinda like what the 501st do IRL) and maybe a more nuanced star wars, but no we got the same ol story.

A bunch of good stormtroopers, trying to just make a good life for the people in their neck of the woods, and then being hunted by this radical faction of "it aint't over 'till every Imp is dead!" aligned with a failed or failing New Republic -- that would be a pretty cool set-up.

You could even balance it out by still having a fanatical First Order (or expy thereof), with most of their propaganda being fed by the atrocities committed by the radical "New Republic" faction. On the other side, we'd have our OT heroes (and new faces, like Poe) being opposed to the fanatics on "their" side. So they'd end up working together with the "chill" stormtroopers, and the fanatics on both sides would acually turn out to be very much alike!

(It would also make more sense for Han and Leia's son to be on the radical fringe of their side, rather than becoming a Neo-Imperial.)

We'll file this under #AnotherSequelPlotWayBetterThanWhatWeGot
 
A bunch of good stormtroopers, trying to just make a good life for the people in their neck of the woods, and then being hunted by this radical faction of "it aint't over 'till every Imp is dead!" aligned with a failed or failing New Republic -- that would be a pretty cool set-up.

You could even balance it out by still having a fanatical First Order (or expy thereof), with most of their propaganda being fed by the atrocities committed by the radical "New Republic" faction. On the other side, we'd have our OT heroes (and new faces, like Poe) being opposed to the fanatics on "their" side. So they'd end up working together with the "chill" stormtroopers, and the fanatics on both sides would acually turn out to be very much alike!

(It would also make more sense for Han and Leia's son to be on the radical fringe of their side, rather than becoming a Neo-Imperial.)

We'll file this under #AnotherSequelPlotWayBetterThanWhatWeGot


put it on the pile
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
Watching it now.

Immediate thoughts.

> I see Katy O'Brien, the Imperial Communications officer from Season Two, has returned. She did survive the climatic battle of that season. WILL SHE COME BACK? Can I still get a duel with Cara Dune on the MUD PLANET as foretold in the Prophecies of the Whills.
> Really enjoyed the opening scene with the Mandalorians teaming up in the prolonged aerial battle with TIE Interceptors. And that was just the beginning. Still wild that it's literally just Bo Katan hanging out all alone in her castle. Gotta magnify those character traits of isolation and depression/mopiness.
> KATY O'BRIEN is back! Weeeee! *airhorns go off obnoxiously* Maybe she'll get an actual name besides Imperial Communications Officer now as well!
> I agree the Outer Rim is fucking shit. Like all that happens there is perpetual war and murder and slavery and stuff. *laughs haughtily*
> The Amnesty Program, Reintegration Institute, this is all pretty neat world building with how they dealt with all of the Imperials leftover... AND OMG there's Katy... and she has a name... and an Amnesty Name.
> Long Live the New Republic... "Now let us discuss how we will take over the World Pinky!"
> These moments of (former) Imperial levity are great. It's like when the two Speederbike troopers were chatting about things in Episode I, or the cafeteria scene in Season 2. But...
> So I don't wanna be that girl but... I spent half of The Book of Boba Fett getting The Mandalorian Season 2.5 and I don't know if I want to spent an episode or more dealing with non-Mandalorianisms. Can't wait for it all to fall apart due to the Dark Side and Corruption and most dangerously of all... GOOD INTENTIONS or something. Also I want a Photon Fizzle.
> This Android therapy/counseling thing is too surreal with an emphasis on both surreal and real. Better than a tablet I guess.
> He's falling to the Good Intentions Side of the Force. 😭 I really don't get how they expect to do cloning research in those little apartments of theirs.
> I like how the Imperial is apparently not just at unease for doing something ILLEGAL but at unease with all of the Alien civilians and whatnot he's having to interact with daily and other normal things. Reinforces how he's never been to Coruscant and he can truly appreciate its scale and splendor and everything else.
> Being chased by the ticket agent droids of all things was actually kind of a legit tense situation. Amazing.
> This facility seems more cleanly run then the one Cal Kestis and his Xenos friend were shipwrecking at in Fallen Order.
> Her name is Elia Kane, Communications Officer! She has a name. She's going to be a recurring character now. This pleases me, Dave Filoni must read my posts The Sietch. The fact her name is Kane means she's probably still evil tho... Still I can shout KANE LIVES obnoxiously now.
> Ship settling? Bullshit. That sound is NECROMORPHS!
> Plot twist, not Necromorphs. It's the New Republic FBI.
> Oh my gosh... a Mind Flayer... and not the cool one with the tentacles. I love it... non-invasive... experimental... useful for rehabilitation indeed. Low voltages? Oh no it is an electroshocker.
> "It was a trap!" HE SAID THE THING... to the FISH PERSON!
> I hope that dastardly KANE will get her comeuppance! On the aforementioned Mud Planet... facing down a Marshal...

> Now hand your Quest Item to the DM's NPC. 2500 XP Gained! This is the way.
> Welcome Bo Katan... Very weird.

I want to say best episode of the season yet... but it wasn't really a Mandalorian episode.

Also weird that people still wear glasses in the future. Maybe it's a fashion accessory for nerds. Then again the Outer Rim can be very backwards. *laughs in haughty Core World*
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Watching it now.

Immediate thoughts.

> I see Katy O'Brien, the Imperial Communications officer from Season Two, has returned. She did survive the climatic battle of that season. WILL SHE COME BACK? Can I still get a duel with Cara Dune on the MUD PLANET as foretold in the Prophecies of the Whills.
> Really enjoyed the opening scene with the Mandalorians teaming up in the prolonged aerial battle with TIE Interceptors. And that was just the beginning. Still wild that it's literally just Bo Katan hanging out all alone in her castle. Gotta magnify those character traits of isolation and depression/mopiness.
> KATY O'BRIEN is back! Weeeee! *airhorns go off obnoxiously* Maybe she'll get an actual name besides Imperial Communications Officer now as well!
> I agree the Outer Rim is fucking shit. Like all that happens there is perpetual war and murder and slavery and stuff. *laughs haughtily*
> The Amnesty Program, Reintegration Institute, this is all pretty neat world building with how they dealt with all of the Imperials leftover... AND OMG there's Katy... and she has a name... and an Amnesty Name.
> Long Live the New Republic... "Now let us discuss how we will take over the World Pinky!"
> These moments of (former) Imperial levity are great. It's like when the two Speederbike troopers were chatting about things in Episode I, or the cafeteria scene in Season 2. But...
> So I don't wanna be that girl but... I spent half of The Book of Boba Fett getting The Mandalorian Season 2.5 and I don't know if I want to spent an episode or more dealing with non-Mandalorianisms. Can't wait for it all to fall apart due to the Dark Side and Corruption and most dangerously of all... GOOD INTENTIONS or something. Also I want a Photon Fizzle.
> This Android therapy/counseling thing is too surreal with an emphasis on both surreal and real. Better than a tablet I guess.
> He's falling to the Good Intentions Side of the Force. 😭 I really don't get how they expect to do cloning research in those little apartments of theirs.
> I like how the Imperial is apparently not just at unease for doing something ILLEGAL but at unease with all of the Alien civilians and whatnot he's having to interact with daily and other normal things. Reinforces how he's never been to Coruscant and he can truly appreciate its scale and splendor and everything else.
> Being chased by the ticket agent droids of all things was actually kind of a legit tense situation. Amazing.
> This facility seems more cleanly run then the one Cal Kestis and his Xenos friend were shipwrecking at in Fallen Order.
> Her name is Elia Kane, Communications Officer! She has a name. She's going to be a recurring character now. This pleases me, Dave Filoni must read my posts The Sietch. The fact her name is Kane means she's probably still evil tho... Still I can shout KANE LIVES obnoxiously now.
> Ship settling? Bullshit. That sound is NECROMORPHS!
> Plot twist, not Necromorphs. It's the New Republic FBI.
> Oh my gosh... a Mind Flayer... and not the cool one with the tentacles. I love it... non-invasive... experimental... useful for rehabilitation indeed. Low voltages? Oh no it is an electroshocker.
> "It was a trap!" HE SAID THE THING... to the FISH PERSON!
> I hope that dastardly KANE will get her comeuppance! On the aforementioned Mud Planet... facing down a Marshal...

> Now hand your Quest Item to the DM's NPC. 2500 XP Gained! This is the way.
> Welcome Bo Katan... Very weird.

I want to say best episode of the season yet... but it wasn't really a Mandalorian episode.

Also weird that people still wear glasses in the future. Maybe it's a fashion accessory for nerds. Then again the Outer Rim can be very backwards. *laughs in haughty Core World*
As a Mando'ade, we all armt as lucky as you core worlders.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Watching it now.
Immediate thoughts.

> I see Katy O'Brien, the Imperial Communications officer from Season Two, has returned. She did survive the climatic battle of that season. WILL SHE COME BACK? Can I still get a duel with Cara Dune on the MUD PLANET as foretold in the Prophecies of the Whills.
> Really enjoyed the opening scene with the Mandalorians teaming up in the prolonged aerial battle with TIE Interceptors. And that was just the beginning. Still wild that it's literally just Bo Katan hanging out all alone in her castle. Gotta magnify those character traits of isolation and depression/mopiness.
> KATY O'BRIEN is back! Weeeee! *airhorns go off obnoxiously* Maybe she'll get an actual name besides Imperial Communications Officer now as well!
> I agree the Outer Rim is fucking shit. Like all that happens there is perpetual war and murder and slavery and stuff. *laughs haughtily*
> The Amnesty Program, Reintegration Institute, this is all pretty neat world building with how they dealt with all of the Imperials leftover... AND OMG there's Katy... and she has a name... and an Amnesty Name.
> Long Live the New Republic... "Now let us discuss how we will take over the World Pinky!"
> These moments of (former) Imperial levity are great. It's like when the two Speederbike troopers were chatting about things in Episode I, or the cafeteria scene in Season 2. But...
> So I don't wanna be that girl but... I spent half of The Book of Boba Fett getting The Mandalorian Season 2.5 and I don't know if I want to spent an episode or more dealing with non-Mandalorianisms. Can't wait for it all to fall apart due to the Dark Side and Corruption and most dangerously of all... GOOD INTENTIONS or something. Also I want a Photon Fizzle.
> This Android therapy/counseling thing is too surreal with an emphasis on both surreal and real. Better than a tablet I guess.
> He's falling to the Good Intentions Side of the Force. 😭 I really don't get how they expect to do cloning research in those little apartments of theirs.
> I like how the Imperial is apparently not just at unease for doing something ILLEGAL but at unease with all of the Alien civilians and whatnot he's having to interact with daily and other normal things. Reinforces how he's never been to Coruscant and he can truly appreciate its scale and splendor and everything else.
> Being chased by the ticket agent droids of all things was actually kind of a legit tense situation. Amazing.
> This facility seems more cleanly run then the one Cal Kestis and his Xenos friend were shipwrecking at in Fallen Order.
> Her name is Elia Kane, Communications Officer! She has a name. She's going to be a recurring character now. This pleases me, Dave Filoni must read my posts The Sietch. The fact her name is Kane means she's probably still evil tho... Still I can shout KANE LIVES obnoxiously now.
> Ship settling? Bullshit. That sound is NECROMORPHS!
> Plot twist, not Necromorphs. It's the New Republic FBI.
> Oh my gosh... a Mind Flayer... and not the cool one with the tentacles. I love it... non-invasive... experimental... useful for rehabilitation indeed. Low voltages? Oh no it is an electroshocker.
> "It was a trap!" HE SAID THE THING... to the FISH PERSON!
> I hope that dastardly KANE will get her comeuppance! On the aforementioned Mud Planet... facing down a Marshal...

> Now hand your Quest Item to the DM's NPC. 2500 XP Gained! This is the way.
> Welcome Bo Katan... Very weird.

I want to say best episode of the season yet... but it wasn't really a Mandalorian episode.

Also weird that people still wear glasses in the future. Maybe it's a fashion accessory for nerds. Then again the Outer Rim can be very backwards. *laughs in haughty Core World*
Sends in a clean up Droid to take care of the room you just Nutted in.:p
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
Sends in a clean up Droid to take care of the room you just Nutted in.:p

What?

I didn't even like the episode that much. Saying its the best one of the season isn't exactly the highest praise. And it's barely a Mandalorian episode.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Putting the matter of "retarded obsessive fanon ideas" aside entirely, I do wonder how we might plausibly extrapolate what we see in The Mandalorian into the setting's future. What we see in the sequels makes even less sense now, because... why would the rabid First Order be the sensible play for the Imperials here? Given this kind of New Republic, the Imperials could realistically just set up a Neo-Imperial state with generally moderate iterations of Imperial ideology (so: like Pellaeon's Imperial Remnant), and countless worlds would join them voluntarily!
Honestly, my headcanon for that remains that the moderate Imperials are content to keep their heads down and keep the peace for now so they can rebuild their worlds without interference from the New Republic, just like the Mandalorians did in the ~300 years between Mandalore the Uniter and the Dral'Han.

After all, the post-Galactic Concordance Imperial rump still controls a significant chunk of the wealthiest and most prosperous world of the Core. With the notable exception of Coruscant, which canonically is controlled by a "provisional" New Republic puppet government under Mas Amedda.

(One does have to wonder what the fuck the New Republic was smoking in aggressively prosecuting former Imperial military officers for alleged war crimes, but not Palpatine's right hand man.)
 

stephen the barbarian

Well-known member
(One does have to wonder what the fuck the New Republic was smoking in aggressively prosecuting former Imperial military officers for alleged war crimes, but not Palpatine's right hand man.)
Mon Mothma was paranoid that the admirals would launch a coup, so she purged the military under the guise of a draw-down. this left the NR without the ability to take Coruscant outright. everything else wrong in the setting is a result of trying to cover up for this mistake. / head-cannon
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Mon Mothma was paranoid that the admirals would launch a coup, so she purged the military under the guise of a draw-down. this left the NR without the ability to take Coruscant outright. everything else wrong in the setting is a result of trying to cover up for this mistake. / head-cannon

As far as I can tell, the Disney canon runs that the Empire still had firm control of the Core Worlds, but lost enough of their offensive mobile fleet assets at Jakku that they were willing to sign a peace deal that included surrendering Coruscant to a supposedly neutral "provisional" government, which in reality was a New Republic puppet under Amedda.

It's a lot less exciting *but* also a lot more realistic than the EU's idea that the Coruscant got captured out from under the Empire by a comically small Republic task force after Rogue Squadron (the ace starfighter squadron that is magically also great at being commandos and spies) single-handedly took down the planetary defenses, and then of off-screen handwave, Coruscant managed to not have mass starvation despite being totally dependent on mass-scale food and water imports which the Empire could cut off at will since they still controlled the entire Core.

I mean, it's a great story and I loved reading it as a kid, but take a step back and you realize it's the equivalent of, "The Doolittle Raid, only instead of just surprise bombing Tokyo, they PARACHUTED IN and CAPTURED THE PALACE!"
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Mon Mothma was paranoid that the admirals would launch a coup, so she purged the military under the guise of a draw-down. this left the NR without the ability to take Coruscant outright. everything else wrong in the setting is a result of trying to cover up for this mistake. / head-cannon
According to the official stuff, the New Republic apparently declared every Imperial military officer a war criminal unless they surrendered immediately, whereas the political leadership of the Empire were all conditionally pardoned. This was, apparently, some kind of attempt at a strong-arm approach to making them comply with the Galactic Concordance peace treaty.

This may explain why Moff Gideon was never properly prosecuted for actual war crimes -- those responsible for prosecutions were no doubt swamped by all these bullshit cases of, "We are retroactively declaring all Imperial military officers as war criminals."
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
According to the official stuff, the New Republic apparently declared every Imperial military officer a war criminal unless they surrendered immediately, whereas the political leadership of the Empire were all conditionally pardoned. This was, apparently, some kind of attempt at a strong-arm approach to making them comply with the Galactic Concordance peace treaty.

This may explain why Moff Gideon was never properly prosecuted for actual war crimes -- those responsible for prosecutions were no doubt swamped by all these bullshit cases of, "We are retroactively declaring all Imperial military officers as war criminals."
...That is just incredibly fucking stupid and poor writing.

If they were that mentally-deficient, the New Republic deserved to collapse and burn, even if the First Order hadn't been the ones to deal the blow -- hell, it's likely it would've gone the same way as the Old Republic just a century later.

You don't rebuild a rotting house with a few patchwork jobs.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
...That is just incredibly fucking stupid and poor writing.

If they were that mentally-deficient, the New Republic deserved to collapse and burn, even if the First Order hadn't been the ones to deal the blow -- hell, it's likely it would've gone the same way as the Old Republic just a century later.

You don't rebuild a rotting house with a few patchwork jobs.
It is one of the reasons Ryloth refused to join the New Republic. The Tw'leks could recognize a shitshow when they see one.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Mon Mothma was paranoid that the admirals would launch a coup, so she purged the military under the guise of a draw-down. this left the NR without the ability to take Coruscant outright. everything else wrong in the setting is a result of trying to cover up for this mistake. / head-cannon

It's as good n excuse as any, since every character seems to be an idiot in the Dsney canon.

But ultimately, this--

...That is just incredibly fucking stupid and poor writing.

If they were that mentally-deficient, the New Republic deserved to collapse and burn, even if the First Order hadn't been the ones to deal the blow -- hell, it's likely it would've gone the same way as the Old Republic just a century later.

You don't rebuild a rotting house with a few patchwork jobs.

--namely that it's "just incredibly fucking stupid and poor writing", is ultimately the true explanation. It's hard to make sense of it in a Watsonian way, because the problem is Doylist. This is what happens when you leave a whole setting in the hands of smug hacks without an ounce of talent.


But maybe the scariest bit is that they blithely turn the New Republic evil, with their Orwellian nightmares unfolding as we can see, which is completely counter to what the whole message of the OT was supposed to be. Even if the Old Republic and old Jedi Order had lost their clarity of purpose, they were still born from good ideals. Great ideals, even. And the New Republic was supposed to be a "return to form"; the restoration of what its predecessor was supposed to be.

Of course, the sequels already ruined the New Jedi Order, s why not just ruin the New Republic, too? Luke is a bitter hermit, and the New Republic is okay with torture and brainwashing. Fuck it, why not? This whole Disney canon is a complete clown show anyway.

Contrast that with the old EU, where the heroes setting up the New Republic explicitly took care to consider the morality of their actions, as with their explicit rejection of unethical strategies when it came to liberating Coruscant and other worlds. You really got the sense that the heroes stood for something in that story. That the new state they were founding was imbued with an ideal and a vision (of the future).

Disney's dreck has none of that.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
...That is just incredibly fucking stupid and poor writing.

If they were that mentally-deficient, the New Republic deserved to collapse and burn, even if the First Order hadn't been the ones to deal the blow -- hell, it's likely it would've gone the same way as the Old Republic just a century later.

You don't rebuild a rotting house with a few patchwork jobs.

To be fair, it's not in the actual movies and stuff -- it's from Chuck Wendig's third book, Aftermath: Empire's End. On the other hand, the Aftermath trilogy does present Leia Organa as sensibly opposed to this bullshit disarmament, and indicates that this is the reason for her loss in popularity as opposed to being outed as Vader's daughter (which was something that came up more in the EU Legends timeline versus the Disney one).

The Aftermath trilogy doesn't really seem to support the "Mon Mothma was paranoid abbout a military coup" theory, however, as opposed to, "Mon Mothma was always anti-military and wanted the galaxy disarmed ASAP post-Empire, regardless of any potential risk".
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
You don't rebuild a rotting house with a few patchwork jobs.

I'd argue that an Alliance founded in no small part by corrupt politicians from a rotting house was never going to be capable of building anything but another rotting house. From that point of view, Mon Mothma's idea that the central government had to be heavily disarmed because it would inevitably plunge into another galactic conflict if it retained such power isn't completely insane; after all, the post-Rusaan Republic *was* almost completely disarmed and decentralized, and that was one of the best periods in Galactic history.

It's harder to argue that a disarmed Republic couldn't possibly work when canon galactic history did in fact show that it sometimes did.
 

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