Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Klingons do have honor, but it is external rather than internal. Worf, however, practices internal honor.
The modern western concept of honor is internal, only you can gain or lose honor for yourself through your actions. This is sometimes negatively described as "Guilt culture." Worf thinks this way and doesn't entirely understand that other Klingons don't in TNG, though he's come further to understanding it in DS9. That said, he does not internalize it, note his repelling Gowron with "Except my honor" when Gowron tells him he'll take every Worf has away. Worf does not believe his honor can be taken away (compared with everything else) because his honor comes from his own right actions.
Klingons practice external honor, honor is given and taken away by others' perception of you in the greater sphere of Klingon culture. This is negatively defined as "Shame culture." Notably, Klingons tend to associate honor and glory closely while Worf rarely, if ever, speaks of glory. Glory and Honor are linked in a shame/external honor culture because both are given by others to you.
Western countries, especially those that are Christian, tend to run on internal honor, "are my actions fair/righteous/good" is the question to be asked. God sees all and judges, Jesus urged us to store up treasure in heaven and do good deeds in secret, so that the Father who is looking on in secret will recognize and reward our deeds while men who publically proclaim their own righteousness to get fame are having their reward in full here on earth. What other people think of you is of concern but an honorable man does the right thing even if nobody else is watching. "Who you are in the dark" and all that.
To draw some comparisons, Muslim and most Asian countries practice shame/external honor. "What will other people think of me for doing this" is the question to be asked. This can lead to some odd dissonances when westerners read manga without realizing the cultural baggage involved. People who are described as "highly honorable" in Muslim culture might readily stab you in the back the second it's turned or break agreements at the drop of a hat, because as long as they continue to be praised by their comrades, those actions are honorable in an external honor/shame culture.
For another example in Asian culture, a common plot in NTR stories is a guy blackmailing a woman into horrendous acts by threatening to spread a lewd photograph he secretly took of her with a spy camera or some such. The typical western reaction is to presume the woman has a brain smaller than certain subatomic particles to think that would be a good idea, and her standard reaction should be to report the guy to the police for taking the photo. In western culture this is the correct action, the woman has not been dishonored because she has not taken dishonorable actions, and is the victim. However in shame/external honor culture, being blackmailed is highly dishonorable while actions taken in secret are not, so the woman is acting according to her culture, the actions she takes for the blackmailer, while horrible, are also secret and thus not dishonorable while having the photo spread would shame and dishonor her.
One can see the same issues for Klingons vs. Worf. There is no situation where you could blackmail Worf into performing an action he considers "Dishonorable" and he would probably kill you for trying. However you could very likely blackmail an honorable klingon warrior and he will do your secret bidding if you don't release the blackmail (though if a good opportunity arose he too would probably kill you, to remove the blackmail as it would benefit him directly rather than because he felt your actions were dishonorable).
The modern western concept of honor is internal, only you can gain or lose honor for yourself through your actions. This is sometimes negatively described as "Guilt culture." Worf thinks this way and doesn't entirely understand that other Klingons don't in TNG, though he's come further to understanding it in DS9. That said, he does not internalize it, note his repelling Gowron with "Except my honor" when Gowron tells him he'll take every Worf has away. Worf does not believe his honor can be taken away (compared with everything else) because his honor comes from his own right actions.
Klingons practice external honor, honor is given and taken away by others' perception of you in the greater sphere of Klingon culture. This is negatively defined as "Shame culture." Notably, Klingons tend to associate honor and glory closely while Worf rarely, if ever, speaks of glory. Glory and Honor are linked in a shame/external honor culture because both are given by others to you.
Western countries, especially those that are Christian, tend to run on internal honor, "are my actions fair/righteous/good" is the question to be asked. God sees all and judges, Jesus urged us to store up treasure in heaven and do good deeds in secret, so that the Father who is looking on in secret will recognize and reward our deeds while men who publically proclaim their own righteousness to get fame are having their reward in full here on earth. What other people think of you is of concern but an honorable man does the right thing even if nobody else is watching. "Who you are in the dark" and all that.
To draw some comparisons, Muslim and most Asian countries practice shame/external honor. "What will other people think of me for doing this" is the question to be asked. This can lead to some odd dissonances when westerners read manga without realizing the cultural baggage involved. People who are described as "highly honorable" in Muslim culture might readily stab you in the back the second it's turned or break agreements at the drop of a hat, because as long as they continue to be praised by their comrades, those actions are honorable in an external honor/shame culture.
For another example in Asian culture, a common plot in NTR stories is a guy blackmailing a woman into horrendous acts by threatening to spread a lewd photograph he secretly took of her with a spy camera or some such. The typical western reaction is to presume the woman has a brain smaller than certain subatomic particles to think that would be a good idea, and her standard reaction should be to report the guy to the police for taking the photo. In western culture this is the correct action, the woman has not been dishonored because she has not taken dishonorable actions, and is the victim. However in shame/external honor culture, being blackmailed is highly dishonorable while actions taken in secret are not, so the woman is acting according to her culture, the actions she takes for the blackmailer, while horrible, are also secret and thus not dishonorable while having the photo spread would shame and dishonor her.
One can see the same issues for Klingons vs. Worf. There is no situation where you could blackmail Worf into performing an action he considers "Dishonorable" and he would probably kill you for trying. However you could very likely blackmail an honorable klingon warrior and he will do your secret bidding if you don't release the blackmail (though if a good opportunity arose he too would probably kill you, to remove the blackmail as it would benefit him directly rather than because he felt your actions were dishonorable).
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