ASOIAF/GOT The Entire Continent of Westeros replaced North&South America during the Age of Exploration

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
This occurs right after the Greyjoy Rebellion, people notice that they can’t reach Essos any longer or get new traders from Essos and rarely see Essosi Slavers around

So possible economic problems there

How do European Powers react to these more primitive in-comparison white dudes?

Can or will they still send out colonization fleets?
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Depends on a lot.

Wouldn't be surprised to see immigrants headed over to escape religious persecution...only to find they are as readily persecuted by Westerosi.

Also....gunpowder...the consequences here are really dependent upon plot. Sure, the islanders have lots of ships. Lots of ships that will sink even before they a can think about boarding a European vessel. Hell, just a broadside or two of grape and chain to clear the canvas on the Westerosi ships will take them out of action!
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
As for the European reply itself...

Yup, there'd be colonization efforts...and I fear the reaction by the Papacy regarding the Westerosi pagans. Might eventually see the Hordes replaced by hundreds/thousands of ships filled with musket-armed and cannon-backed colonialists.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
As for the European reply itself...

Yup, there'd be colonization efforts...and I fear the reaction by the Papacy regarding the Westerosi pagans. Might eventually see the Hordes replaced by hundreds/thousands of ships filled with musket-armed and cannon-backed colonialists.

I think they can send in missionaries who may end up really perplexed as to why the Sept is so much like the Church in structure

But also find it lacking and wonder why aside from not worshipping the “correct” God, it lacks any involvement with education & science or much in terms of theological discussion

I can see there being concessions like “You can keep the Gift/New Gift/Beyond-The-Wall
 
D

Deleted member 88

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Westeros is only about a century or so behind Europe, really less in some ways.

Given its based on the war of the roses. So mid 15th century, and even more advanced in others.

So any European conquest will likely be a piecemeal and very slow process.

Probably more just the Spanish and what not trading on the coasts, and the European powers playing the Westerosi against each other-gunpowder and more advanced European tactics would enter Westeros and would even the playing field.

Actually controlling the continent is not going to be easy-you have to take out the King and the great nobles.

I expect missionary efforts will run into the faith of the seven and the old gods, and thus engender opposition.

Given european power rivalries-i expect the french, british and spanish, dutch and so on will back different factions and houses, while the westerosi try and play them all against each other and get the most out of trade and military relationships as possible.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Westeros is only about a century or so behind Europe, really less in some ways.

Given its based on the war of the roses. So mid 15th century, and even more advanced in others.

So any European conquest will likely be a piecemeal and very slow process.

Probably more just the Spanish and what not trading on the coasts, and the European powers playing the Westerosi against each other-gunpowder and more advanced European tactics would enter Westeros and would even the playing field.

Actually controlling the continent is not going to be easy-you have to take out the King and the great nobles.

I expect missionary efforts will run into the faith of the seven and the old gods, and thus engender opposition.

Given european power rivalries-i expect the french, british and spanish, dutch and so on will back different factions and houses, while the westerosi try and play them all against each other and get the most out of trade and military relationships as possible.

It’s like the Andal Invasion all over again

Except, no razing Andalos/Europe as retaliation

Probably gonna do arranged marriages, maybe even Royal Marriages between not just Lords and Kings but Kings and Kings
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
It’s like the Andal Invasion all over again

Except, no razing Andalos/Europe as retaliation

Probably gonna do arranged marriages, maybe even Royal Marriages between not just Lords and Kings but Kings and Kings
Probably. And some Westerosi nobles will definitely convert when the political winds shift.

The Lannisters, Tyrells and other great houses are rich enough that I think Europeans would generally want to trade with them, and ingratiate themselves with them. Before trying to play Conquistador.

Technology wise-its really not that much of a gap.

A spanish conquistador facing a westerosi knight will likely die without gunpowder and support. The westerosi has steel armor and weapons and the same training he does.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Probably. And some Westerosi nobles will definitely convert when the political winds shift.

The Lannisters, Tyrells and other great houses are rich enough that I think Europeans would generally want to trade with them, and ingratiate themselves with them. Before trying to play Conquistador.

Technology wise-its really not that much of a gap.

A spanish conquistador facing a westerosi knight will likely die without gunpowder and support. The westerosi has steel armor and weapons and the same training he does.

I wonder how they would take to conquering say, Wildlings

I mean they’re all white, Karsi from TV show aside maybe, but their social mores and the fact they’re tribal would be aomething Europeans haven’t experienced in more than a millenia when it comes to white dudes themselves
 
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Deleted member 88

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Well there are the Sami in Norway, the Europeans would see the wildlings as uncivilized barbarians living beyond the structure of civilization.

Their skin color might make them be seen as less “Other” but they still be seen as savages. In need of Christian salvation and a king to rule them.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
...I mean they’re all white, Karsi from TV show aside maybe...

Probably the same way the Romans treated the Gaul or the way the Native Americans were dealt with. Either way it wont be pretty.

Couple of questions though...do the Westerosi still have their magic, and are the White Walkers still a thing?
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
Also....gunpowder...the consequences here are really dependent upon plot. Sure, the islanders have lots of ships. Lots of ships that will sink even before they a can think about boarding a European vessel. Hell, just a broadside or two of grape and chain to clear the canvas on the Westerosi ships will take them out of action!
Ramming was hardly an unknown in this era, and if the show is allowed via OP, if anything the Westerosi ships dramatically outgun the real world ships, with those silly "artillery catapults" and hypersonic Ballistas that overpenetrate entire vessels from miles away.


Yup, there'd be colonization efforts...and I fear the reaction by the Papacy regarding the Westerosi pagans. Might eventually see the Hordes replaced by hundreds/thousands of ships filled with musket-armed and cannon-backed colonialists.
Not remotely possible. The colonization of america, which was 99% empty real estate with scattered populations of stone age peoples, took hundreds of years.
There are "pagans" all over the planet, in this period, but people act like suddenly all of europe is going to start foaming at the mouth because there are... some pagans... somewhere.

I wonder how they would take to conquering say, Wildlings
"Ah, sweet, we killed the wildlings, now we can take their..."
*wind howling distantly*
"Why did we do this again?"
 
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Deleted member 88

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@Shipmaster Sane the America’s were not “90% empty”. Native American populations were devastated by disease, far more than European swords and guns.

Though of course population densities and technology level amongst the amerindians varies greatly.



With westeros-everything south of the neck is probably at European levels of population density, and as said the technological gap is rather small.

And let’s not include Show Euron’s anti ship missiles. That was probably one of the dumbest sequences in the show(I mean if you were willing to be really generous you could say magic was involved to tie it into the book character but I am not in the mood today for that).

In terms of colonization-probably closer to India or China. I doubt the Europeans will ever exercise direct authority over the interior or de jure political control over the whole continent.
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
@Shipmaster Sane the America’s were not “90% empty”. Native American populations were devastated by disease, far more than European swords and guns.
1. The land wasn't empty
2. Disease had wiped everyone out

How the fuck is "everyone was killed by disease and now they're no longer here" not "empty". What was it you think I was referring to?
 
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Deleted member 88

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1. The land wasn't empty
2. Disease had wiped everyone out

How the fuck is "everyone was killed by disease and now they're no longer here" not "empty". What was it you think I was referring to?
What were you referring to?

The Americas in August of 1492? Or The Americas around 1700 or so?

That’s a very different picture demographically speaking.
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
What were you referring to?

The Americas in August of 1492? Or The Americas around 1700 or so?

That’s a very different picture demographically speaking.
Well thats just it, I'm talking about the land as they found it, for hundreds of years. Enormous swaths of what was actually colonized, was empty terrain that may or may not have previously been occupied.
The europeans were, for a great deal of the colonial american period, filling an area that had been virtually depopulated, and was peopled mostly by the scattered remnants of what was before, and it still took a long, long time to physically claim the entire landmass.
Yet people act as though europe is going to sweep over the enormity of Westeros within a generation.
 
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Deleted member 88

Guest
Well thats just it, I'm talking about the land as they found it, for hundreds of years. Enormous swaths of what was actually colonized, was empty terrain that may or may not have previously been occupied.
The europeans were, for a great deal of the colonial american period, filling an area that had been virtually depopulated, and was peopled mostly by the scattered remnants of what was before, and it still took a long, long time to physically claim the entire landmass.
Yet people act as though europe is going to sweep over the enormity of Westeros within a generation.
Okay sorry about the misunderstanding.

And yeah the Europeans basically colonized a post apocalyptic landscape.

As I’ve said before-smallpox was the most successful biological warfare campaign in human history. And the Europeans weren’t even aware they were waging it.
 

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