Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]

Navarro

Well-known member
I also was including the fact the British are losing some of their most important land, including Gibraltar, I would assume the deal involved the US helping them get Oceania, South Africa, or India. That way the British feel like they didn’t get a bad deal, since Germany got literally all their territorial demands from the First World War and then some.

Yes, Britain does plan to form some kind of union with South Africa and Oceania to gain a measure of relevance in the post-war world. But you're also not taking into account the fact that the Caribbean islands and Canada hadn't been "British" for over a century in FOverse before the war - and UK knows it wouldn't be able to defend the islands in a situation of war without US support anyway.
 

liberty90

Evil Neoliberal Cat
And also … he was weary of life. For so long he had been caught up in here, skin leathery and mummified, a dozen tubes piercing his emaciated body to carry out functions it could no longer perform. There was little company here too – either the PR AI he had coded up, or the electronic ghosts of his dead lovers inhabiting securitrons.

Humph, about that small detail... Couldn't House spend his time in a some sort of a virtual reality? That's something well inside of the Fallout tech framework.
 

ForeverShogo

Well-known member
Honestly, with the tech Fallout America has access to? They should easily be able to achieve the kind of economic system that would make something like Communism a non-starter. Just because there shouldn't really be the kind of pressures that let something like Bolshevism seem like a viable path.

Especially with the state of their robotics, and that replicator tech, in the more developed areas most people would barely have to work and the dedicated human workforce would be those who, for them, work and their hobby are one and the same.

Like, for anyone to really end up homeless or hungry in a Fallout America that has bounced back would require people to deliberately fuck everything up for themselves or to just flat out be incapable of taking care of themselves. And good news! If you're the latter, we have goddamn nanny robots so you don't even have that excuse.

As for what the British got . . . I'd assume getting Britain back under their control, and even getting all of Ireland under their control again, would be more than good enough. On top of getting that bit of Northern France.

From what I recall, the British were much worse off than the Germans were. Like, Germany was already reclaiming a lot of its old territory while the British government was still basically just stuck in the London metro area.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Honestly, with the tech Fallout America has access to? They should easily be able to achieve the kind of economic system that would make something like Communism a non-starter. Just because there shouldn't really be the kind of pressures that let something like Bolshevism seem like a viable path.

Exactly, but not in the way you think. The working and middle-class population enjoy a relatively prosperous existence with a good deal of political freedom and strong potential for social mobility - not exactly the sort of stuff that breeds revolution. Not to mention the strong cultural and religious stigmas against anything that even sounds like communism. E-USA is a country where every major town and city has its own nuclear war memorial, where elementary school kids watch documentaries about communist atrocities in Alaska (and across the world) and go on field trips to museums where they learn about the horrors of the post-nuclear dark ages that communism caused.

Especially with the state of their robotics, and that replicator tech, in the more developed areas most people would barely have to work and the dedicated human workforce would be those who, for them, work and their hobby are one and the same.
I mean, the picture of pre-War FO-USA we're shown isn't that of a paradise where people's jobs are synonymous with their hobbies, so I would have to differ. Even ignoring the major war that was going on and ensuing political authoritarianism, it certainly wasn't that.

Even the notion that it was on a straight shot to post-scarcity seems doubtful, when you look at what the replicator tech actually consists of. Essentially, glorified vending machines. And we don't know that the technology can be meaningfully scaled up, e.g. it could be that it takes exponentially higher levels of energy to rearrange larger quanties of matter, and the Sierra Madre network is at the limit of what a municipal grid is capable of reasonably supplying.

Now, the ubiquity of fusion power certainly points to a lack of energy scarcity - that's a given. But that's also the same situation we've had for decades OTL, just with less room to be concerned about running out of fuel or environmental problems.

That FOverse has sentient AIs also doesn't mean that all jobs will be taken up by them, given that:

A. Most are approximately the size of a bus.
B. Those that aren't are the product of hundreds of years wandering around a nuclear wasteland causing fluke unintended results (with seemingly high odds of violent insanity).
C. Those that aren't A or B are actually more like clones or vat-grown cyborg humans.

A society dependant on robots also has them as a single point of failure and is hence vulnerable to a computer virus, hacking attack or plain old negligence in coding the latest firmware upgrade patch bricking all your robot workers and soldiers.

Or if you ultimately remove all the kinks ... in a society where sentient robots do everything and humans sit around and fulfill their hobbies, the humans are redundant. At best, you get Rogue Servitors from Stellaris:



At worst, in the end the robots decide that it's a waste of clock time keeping the humans that they have to wait on around anymore. And since all functions of society are reliant on them, resistance wpuld be futile.

At any rate, there are good reasons to believe, and some fair bit of statistical evidence, that the automation rapture/armageddon isn't actually a thing that's going to happen IRL. FO-USA and E-USA aren't societies where robots replace human workers, but where they assist them. And such is not likely to change in the timeline of this fanfic.

Like, for anyone to really end up homeless or hungry in a Fallout America that has bounced back would require people to deliberately fuck everything up for themselves or to just flat out be incapable of taking care of themselves.

I mean, IRL most homeless are drug addicts or mental cases, so this isn't really any different from OTL. Superior medical technology does cut into their numbers though, certainly.

As for what the British got . . . I'd assume getting Britain back under their control, and even getting all of Ireland under their control again, would be more than good enough. On top of getting that bit of Northern France.

From what I recall, the British were much worse off than the Germans were. Like, Germany was already reclaiming a lot of its old territory while the British government was still basically just stuck in the London metro area.

They had London and Kent, basically, when they were first contacted. Technically it wasn't "Germany" also, it was a self-declared successor state to the Second Empire that controlled the Brandenburg region and parts of Pommerania, and was actually less "legitimate" than some East German remnants directly to their south in Saxony (but then East Germany was never anything more than a Soviet puppet, so they weren't really that legitimate). It was a situation roughly similar to the post-Napoleonic pre-Wilhelmine period, when most of the random little HRE micro-statelets had been consolidated but there was still no real unity (with a touch of the ideological craziness that blossomed during the fall of the European Commonwealth also in play).
 
Last edited:

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
At any rate, there are good reasons to believe, and some fair bit of statistical evidence, that the automation rapture/armageddon isn't actually a thing that's going to happen IRL. FO-USA and E-USA aren't societies where robots replace human workers, but where they assist them. And such is not likely to change in the timeline of this fanfic.

Any particularly dangerous or relatively strenepus hobbies to make life worth it?
 

ForeverShogo

Well-known member
Even if it's not full work force replacement and a more supplementary role, I'm sure the amount of time people spend working has probably been reduced and many of them have more free time than we do here in the real world.

Okay. I'm sure that would depend on the job. A full time soldier is still a full time soldier. But I'd assume a lot of stuff in the civilian sector has different ideas as to how many hours constitute full time or part time work.

As for what they actually do with their free time? Probably a lot of the same things we do in real life. I don't think things would be TOO different on that front, save for where someone might go if they like to travel. Though gaming could be pretty damn interesting with true VR tech.

Just imagine some gaming corporation really taking advantage of a set up like what the Memory Den had.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Maybe there are arenas for what amount to sub-military grade robots used by citizenry to smash each other for fun



First Amendment used by teenagers
 

Navarro

Well-known member
"If you don't want to rejoin the Union we're just going to militarlity occupy you and shoot anyone who violently resists" and "Yeah we're going to break down all tribal peoples down, mostly wipe away their traditions, and use disproportionate retaliation against any acts of raiding, despite maybe them only committing minor raiding akin to skirmishing rather burning down entire settlements."

TLDR; essentially we already had the NCR's morally gray realpolitik actions shoved in our face both in this fic and the last ones, so the implied E-USA's dubious realpolitik actions kinda felt pale in comparison until we actually got more details about them rather than just implications, when we already got the NCR's actions out in the open in the past.

Also, imagine you're an official in the NCR government. Your intel services keep telling you about constant atrocities and crimes against humanity in the Enclave's territory, while you hear talk of settlements being brutally forced to submit or even outright wiped out in areas the Enclave moves into. What credence would you give to the Enclave's claims of peace and prosperity, when they're also saying other obviously absurd things like "our President comes from the pre-War era" and "we landed a spaceplane on Mars"?
 
Last edited:

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
"our President comes from the pre-War era"

In-Universe, I have to bet that NCR guys ask themselves just WHY they decided to go for a near insane lie like that

At the same time, given that they live in a world with football sized nukes and laser muskets and genetically engineered giant hawk wasps and coyotes with rattlesnake heads

Why wouldn’t they believe stuff like say, being from an underground vault with cryotech? Brotherhood and NCR’s got technology from Pre-War America as well as Vault Tech
 

Floridaman

Well-known member
Also, imagine you're an official in the NCR government. Your intel services keep telling you about constant atrocities and crimes against humanity in the Enclave's territory, while you hear talk of settlements being brutally forced to submit or even outright wiped out in areas the Enclave takes over. What credence would you give to the Enclave's claims of peace and prosperity, when they're also saying other obviously absurd things like "our President comes from the pre-War era" and "we landed a spaceplane on Mars"?
Wasn’t stasis already a thing in Fallout 1 & 2 not even considering Van Buren where that was the main plot. don't get me wrong the NCR would probably publicly dismiss it for propaganda. But you would think someone would consider it possible.
 

ForeverShogo

Well-known member
Dobbs.

He was killed in battle. They tossed him in bio-gel to experiment with the stuff's ability to regenerate and revive him. They were actually successful, since he's perfectly fine if you release him. At first.

If you use improper procedures to bring someone out of a prolonged bio-gel assisted stasis then they suffer catastrophic failure and basically melt into goo.

It's actual kind of a miracle healing goop. I wouldn't be surprised if a normal part of American medical treatment was putting people in tanks of bio-gel. Kind of like bacta tanks from Star Wars. As long as you don't leave them in the tank for years they shouldn't suffer any negative effects.

=====

This is cut content, but the melting into goo thing was referred to as "environmental rejection syndrome". You'd learn about it if you visited the Environmental Protection Agency. While there you can create an Environmental Rejection Syndrome Inhibitor to prevent the effect from occurring.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Humph, about that small detail... Couldn't House spend his time in a some sort of a virtual reality? That's something well inside of the Fallout tech framework.

He's continuously mentally and neurally linked to a supercomputer - if it could solve his problem he would have. But he knows any simulation he could code up wouldn't be real, and suppressing his memories like occurred to the residents of Tranquility Lane would render him unable to maintain his real-world power structure. He's also tried talking to the securitrons hosting AI personalities patterned on his old mistresses, but the conversations have become so repetitive he doesn't really do that anymore.
 
Last edited:

liberty90

Evil Neoliberal Cat
But he knows any simulation he could code up wouldn't be real,

Sure, but it would be more comfortable. Playing video games is also not real, yet such entertainment is well received by many people.

Still, of course, human opinions differ, I can understand if he philosophically dislike such activities.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Sure, but it would be more comfortable. Playing video games is also not real, yet such entertainment is well received by many people.

It'd be more like playing a video game 100% coded by himself, NPCs and all. He knows how everything ticks. There's nothing new to discover that he doesn't remember putting there himself. No room for immersion.
 
Last edited:

Navarro

Well-known member
VERY quick glimpse of ch. 14 (ch. 15 is actually better-developed rn):

==*==

"A toast for our triumphant general! We have a great victory in Illinois!"

-*-

"The President is currently unable to perform the duties of his office."

-*-

"We must cut off their line of retreat."

-*-

The enemy's actions had been so uncanny and bizarre - but effective nonetheless ... He needed to unravel this mystery for himself. Every riddle had an answer, and to achieve victory he knew he had to find the answer to this one.

-*-

Far to the north, the chill winds bit hard on men, but in the Gran Colombian port of Cartagena the breeze from the sea was a welcome relief from the brutal rays of the tropical sun.

-*-

"... Authorisation to use your most lethal munitions ..."
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top