What If? Superhuman Registration Acts

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
If ever suddenly superhumans, extra-species, magic users, super-cyborgs, secret super societies etc suddenly came into existence or were revealed to exist

How helpful or how obstructive and problematic would a “Superhuman Registration Act” be? With the justification that those above are far more deadly than the average human being and can use said abilities for great destruction

Think of it, not just like superheroes and supervillains fighting each other, but knowing that there are “nations within nations” that have been existing the whole time

Knowing that there are/were formerly secret subterranean civilizations of monsters as well as large organizations of human magic-users or extra-dimensional(or living here)magical nations existing, can scare the crap out of people

Think of the Unseelie Accords from Dresden Files as an example of “nations with nations” as the “supernatural nations” are many and have their own rules and are spread out

The latter adds another layer of complication as you wouldn’t be just dealing with vigilantes and criminals
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder
All of that is super dependent on what they are and can do. Like if Hobbits turned out to be a thing I don't think we need a special registration for pygmies with big feet who like tobacco and eating and live a third longer than humans. At the same time this also presumes whoever it is is already a part of society. Is that the case? Because of its a subterranean thing as you mention as one example, I would imagine nation borders now become more three dimensional. That wouldn't be a registration thing, registration would only be a question for things like the magicians or whatever.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
All of that is super dependent on what they are and can do. Like if Hobbits turned out to be a thing I don't think we need a special registration for pygmies with big feet who like tobacco and eating and live a third longer than humans. At the same time this also presumes whoever it is is already a part of society. Is that the case? Because of its a subterranean thing as you mention as one example, I would imagine nation borders now become more three dimensional. That wouldn't be a registration thing, registration would only be a question for things like the magicians or whatever.

Any chance you read Dresden Files? Plenty of those supernatural nations’ citizens include beings that can and do use magic and are already physically superhuman

Also, registration for magicians, what if amongst those secret societies it’s already established there’s an organization for training, apprenticing, connecting and sort of governing them?
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
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In most of the world? Yes, I can absolutely see such lists being created and kept.

In the United States? Things get a LOT more... complicated. Requiring that any supernatural being register with the government can easily be seen to violate their Constitutional rights under the 14th Amendment (a violation of the equal protection clause). This is doubly problematic for wizards, assuming magic is not genetic and can be taught to anyone, as requiring that a person register due to their involvement in a magician's society would ALSO violate their right to free association.

In the US the idea that "they are simply more deadly than others" is a weak argument, as most folks don't buy it even for gun ownership and while SOME supernaturals are quite dangerous, many are STILL less capable of mass murder than "dude with a semi-auto rifle".

On the flip side, while in the US they wouldn't be required to register, they likely would still have a good count on who and where supernaturals live due to... the US Census, which can ask ALL SORTS of questions regarding people's status, and race / ethnicity is a core one, that section just gets a lot more complicated as you add all the supernaturals onto it.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
In most of the world? Yes, I can absolutely see such lists being created and kept.

In the United States? Things get a LOT more... complicated. Requiring that any supernatural being register with the government can easily be seen to violate their Constitutional rights under the 14th Amendment (a violation of the equal protection clause). This is doubly problematic for wizards, assuming magic is not genetic and can be taught to anyone, as requiring that a person register due to their involvement in a magician's society would ALSO violate their right to free association.

In the US the idea that "they are simply more deadly than others" is a weak argument, as most folks don't buy it even for gun ownership and while SOME supernaturals are quite dangerous, many are STILL less capable of mass murder than "dude with a semi-auto rifle".

On the flip side, while in the US they wouldn't be required to register, they likely would still have a good count on who and where supernaturals live due to... the US Census, which can ask ALL SORTS of questions regarding people's status, and race / ethnicity is a core one, that section just gets a lot more complicated as you add all the supernaturals onto it.

That reminds me, in Marvel Civil War(not the MCU one)somebody made some argument about having to register your guns as being similar to needing to register your superpowers
 

Marduk

Well-known member
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In the US the idea that "they are simply more deadly than others" is a weak argument, as most folks don't buy it even for gun ownership and while SOME supernaturals are quite dangerous, many are STILL less capable of mass murder than "dude with a semi-auto rifle".
That would be the low magic ones.
In the more high magic or superhero universes, magic users with the firepower of a light artillery battery or worse aren't that uncommon.

Then, besides issues of sheer destructive capacity, there are probably even worse sanity and legality problems involved in trickier stuff like mind reading and mind control capable civilians, especially if they can be stealthy about, and to probably lesser degree, other exotic large scale capabilities like necromancy, summoning\binding etc.

And on the extreme end of things are 40k psykers, whose mental discipline and willingness to hold it is the only thing standing between a demonic invasion and whatever planet or other location the psyker is living on.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
And on the extreme end of things are 40k psykers, whose mental discipline and willingness to hold it is the only thing standing between a demonic invasion and whatever planet or other location the psyker is living on.

In a better/worse sorta way, if they CAN control their powers, you would still be wary of them

Instead of a crazed gunman just randomly shooting everywhere, he has trigger discipline and good aim
 

Marduk

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In a better/worse sorta way, if they CAN control their powers, you would still be wary of them

Instead of a crazed gunman just randomly shooting everywhere, he has trigger discipline and good aim
In that case that's more in league with typical high magic setting adventurer.
In 99% of cases a psyker losing control has a way bigger immediate destructive potential than one using only what power they can control with destructive intent; and vast majority of those can be stopped in their rampage by sufficient bullets, while a hole in reality is not that simple to deal with.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
Then, besides issues of sheer destructive capacity, there are probably even worse sanity and legality problems involved in trickier stuff like mind reading and mind control capable civilians, especially if they can be stealthy about, and to probably lesser degree, other exotic large scale capabilities like necromancy, summoning\binding etc.
When the US was founded, most of our artillery was private property. If anything it would help push back all of those illegal gun laws.
 
D

Deleted member

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I think mind reading is what could create the pressure for registration -- The MRA and the Crawford-Tokash Act from Babylon 5 are excellent examples. I also think that would justly create a civil war, as would most of the registration acts, since they're contrary to liberty, especially in the United States. But while other forms of registration would have trouble gaining popularity in the United States, the issue of privacy vs. rights for others would be an uncomfortable one. Of course it would be worse in Europe, where the concept of privacy is often much stricter.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
I think mind reading is what could create the pressure for registration -- The MRA and the Crawford-Tokash Act from Babylon 5 are excellent examples. I also think that would justly create a civil war, as would most of the registration acts, since they're contrary to liberty, especially in the United States. But while other forms of registration would have trouble gaining popularity in the United States, the issue of privacy vs. rights for others would be an uncomfortable one. Of course it would be worse in Europe, where the concept of privacy is often much stricter.

Say, what would be the bigger problem of requiring them to work for or answer to the government(s)?
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
In that case that's more in league with typical high magic setting adventurer.
In 99% of cases a psyker losing control has a way bigger immediate destructive potential than one using only what power they can control with destructive intent; and vast majority of those can be stopped in their rampage by sufficient bullets, while a hole in reality is not that simple to deal with.

Doesn’t it take a lot of energy to summon daemons and open portals? I think cults starting would be the beginning problem
 

Marduk

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Doesn’t it take a lot of energy to summon daemons and open portals? I think cults starting would be the beginning problem
It's tricky to do through sorcerous rituals by non psykers. But any psyker powerful enough to warrant imperial attention can do it. Which is also one of many, many reasons for why chaos cults do love recruiting rogue psykers. Most of them only once, the psyker being the first casualty of the manifestation, and as such not necessarily at will, but it's at least somewhat possible.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
That is literally slavery. I would kill anyone who tried to enforce that.

Even if they give a government provided salary?

Also, should have told that to Cloud Nine from Marvel’s Avengers The Initiative

All she wanted to do was use her self-generated cloud for flying. Then Rhodey showed up and said that she was violating the air space and then sent her to Camp Hammond where she became a killer under their instruction.

People like her scare the majority of the population, they are even hated, the government must make a solution that satisfies all or at least the majority.

Zaccur Barstow: My people are being persecuted!
Slayton Ford: Your "people"... ...are a fraction of a tenth of one per cent of all the people... and I must find a solution for all!

It is simply Democracy-In-Action
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
It's a perfect example of why democracy comes after Constitutional rights.

Freedom of Speech=/=Freedom From Consequences

The Constitution is only enforced or made by Democracy, if Democracy chooses differently, it will be ignored

The Individual is the smallest minority in the world, a group of Individuals are still nothing compared to the majority

Tyrants are individuals
 

Big Steve

For the Republic!
Founder
Ugh, the SHRA. That entire plotline was a fucking mess, and I'm half-convinced the real Civil War was in the Bullpen (that is, among Marvel's writers), with writers like JMS explicitly contradicting or undermining or at least critiquing Millar's ending. Hell, half of the titles afterward were devoted to making Tony Stark look like a fascist, including the bit about Cloud 9, and the assholes never actually defined what the act really was meant for.

As for the idea in principle? An understandable desire, but way too prone to abuse. And a lot of our societal expectations and presumptions go out the window if superpowers are openly known and common enough.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Our current laws are based on the assumption of the absolute equality of humans. They become very tenuous indeed when that is so graphically, factually not true anymore. So it's understandable why it would be so divisive. A lot of assumptions of modern society don't actually hold up in a world with superheroes.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
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Say, what would be the bigger problem of requiring them to work for or answer to the government(s)?
A complete violation of rights in the US, specifically free association rights and, again, equal protection.

All she wanted to do was use her self-generated cloud for flying. Then Rhodey showed up and said that she was violating the air space and then sent her to Camp Hammond where she became a killer under their instruction.
The first part here is a different issue. Airspace control is actual an area of valid government interest to ensure safety and security of the general populace. A superhuman who's flying around in restricted airspace or in air traffic lanes would be totally justified in being grounded by the authorities and if a persistent problem, arrested. You can even see this in real life to a degree with remote operated drones and the rules governing their flight and use. They have to stay under a certain altitude and they have to still respect airspace restrictions and violating those rules can get the drone operator arrested. Flying superheroes would actually need to learn and respect those laws.

As to the second, yeah, that's likely illegal in the real US. Who knows if it was in Marvel US, as the Superhuman registration act could well have had some sort of draft rules in place.
 

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