Culture Student Loans are Destroying America

Certified_Heterosexual

The Falklands are Serbian, you cowards.
Student loans are an issue that is near and dear to my heart. While I myself was fortunate enough to receive an academic scholarship and graduate debt-free, I have seen dozens of friends and family get their lives completely wrecked by the wicked lies and free (for us, not you) money from the academic industrial complex. It is shocking how easy it is to get crushing amounts of student loans in 15 minutes with an internet connection—in fact, I can go out there tonight with literally no credit and put myself $50,000 dollars in debt to the federal government. Tonight! In less than twenty minutes. Can you? (Yes).

Are Millennials fucking dumb for going $100-200k in debt for a social studies degree with a healthy dollop of propaganda? Yes, of course, are you an idiot? They would have been better served by getting a library card and attending community college classes, but their vanity will never allow them to admit this in million years. All the Millennials who got bullshit soft science and libarts degrees think those degrees make them smarter than everyone on this forum. Every dumbass on Twitter and Reddit who does smoothbrain white-collar makework (ineptly) and then goes home and suffocates himself in carbs and streaming video will scream at you if you tell them their college degree was a scam and they have no critical thinking skills, although it's plainly evident from their truncated language abilities and poor attempts at reason. That would require admitting that they had fallen for a scam and that (contrary to received wisdom) they are profoundly dumber than a plumber, locksmith, or electrician who knew better.

You can't cheat an honest man. Con artists know their marks are motivated by selfishness, vanity, and greed—that's how they select their marks. Sure, these idiots were misled, and many of them had families picking up the tab anyway, but they wanted to believe all the bullshit because they've never wanted a life of purpose or self-reliance.

However, the list of bad actors is long, and it's not just boomer parents booming large with all the standard pro-college pablum. There is a propaganda machine beyond imagination propelling teenagers into a lifetime of debt; it's fueled by the academy, by the media, by corporations. "You need this fancy piece of paper if you want to be important and intelligent," says the rat-faced man in the New York Times editorial. "Without a degree, how will I really know you value Black lives?" asks the smug professor over a Zoom call (classes have been virtual for months but tuition prices haven't dropped). "Sorry, you just aren't qualified for this entry level, retard-manageable job," sighs the woman in the HR department. The entire system is in on the scam, and business has never been better. Forget perverse incentivization—the incentivization scheme for student loans is actively, overtly pernicious. In an age where you can find a hobbyist with a YouTube channel explaining any subject you'd ever learn in college, charging students more than an average American home's value for a fancy piece of paper isn't just immoral, isn't just a quaint holdover from a bygone era, but is actively evil.

The answer, as in most things, is skin in the game. So few of these actors have any skin in the game at all; this needs to change, starting with the universities. While there are many possible avenues to attack academia, the most promising to my mind is to make the universities financially responsible for their graduates, a warranty-like system against their graduates walking off the dais and into a lifetime of low-paying barista shitjobs that will never allow them to service their six-figure debt (this happens every single May in America and nobody seems to find it outrageous). I believe there should be a one-year warranty against graduate failure—if the graduate in question is unable to secure a job that pays what the university promised the student at the beginning of their program (this is another huge avenue of duplicity and would need to simultaneously be addressed, like how fast food joints have to tell you just how fat their food is going to make you now), the university becomes liable and must offer to buy the student's credential back for whatever the cost of attendance was plus interest (because fuck academia). The graduate, if they accept, would relinquish their credential (it's not like they learned anything anyway) and get their money back. I imagine that colleges would be far less likely to admit midwit strivers for bullshit propaganda degrees under this system.

As the system works now, there is absolutely zero responsibility on the university to offer a degree that is either cheap or useful for attaining a livelihood. The federal government will pay almost unlimited amounts of money for whatever tripe Professor Softmetal wants to teach, so of course they're going to juice the coffers with millions of teenage dupes and their student loan dollars. Have you been to a campus lately? They're Clown World given form. Monumental gleaming new construction taking up every inch of the quad, amenities beyond a Club Med in Monaco, blue-haired harridans and bugmen everywhere—the staggering amount of federal cash is physically corrupting these institutions. The scam is laid bare for all to see, and yet every fall a new crop of marks lines up to get their grievance studies degree. College is no longer a valuable stepping stone to a better life—in 2020, it's just somewhere you go to party and learn women can have penises too for four years before either Daddy gets you a job, or you end up working a job you could have easily gotten without a worthless degree. The whole thing is rotten; value-free indoctrination that takes you 25 years to pay off. Oh, what a scholastic opportunity!

Force the universities to pay for their wickedness. Make them guarantee their students. Make it illegal to require a college degree for low-skilled jobs. Bar the DOE from lending out vast sums of monopoly money to naiive teenagers, and absolutely gut the private student loan industry (morally on par with payday loan services). 90% of college degrees are worthless anyhow—merely an excuse to be exposed to far left politics daily for four years hundreds of miles away from the positive influence of your friends and family—we'll be doing everyone a favor by destroying this farce.

The modern university and the student loan pimps exhibit bad faith, malfeasance, corruption, and conflicted interest far beyond whatever Fannie Mae, Countrywide, Bear Stearns et al. did in 2008. It's criminal.

Academia delenda est.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
A better solution than a 1 year guarantee is the university, instead of receiving tuition, is paid with a percentage of salary for the next 10 years or so.
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
Student debt is a sorry subject. A generation or two of young people were told to stick their foot in a bear trap, and never told of the danger, and did so, and will now be to varying extents hobbled in perpetuity (as you can never really recover from money you could have otherwise made, even if the restraint is later removed).

The problem is of course that this is a painful, unfair lesson that we nonetheless need to learn. A generation of young people must limp through the rest of their economic lives as examples. Because if we were to wave the proverbial magic wand and remove that injury from them, we would never learn our lesson, we would never think of the consequences, we would always hold out hope that no matter how much we willingly subjected ourselves to the slavery of debt, one day we'd strike the jackpot and it would all magically vanish.


There is only one way to defeat academia, and that is to starve it. Starvation is the natural ends for all leftist entities. Have many children, raise them correctly, as non participants in the system that despises them. Do not participate in that which actively seeks to harm you to the greatest extent that you can.

Show the next generation, and the next, your injury of naive ignorance, and make them understand.
 

OliverCromwell

Permanently Banned
Permanently Banned
Most of what you're saying is completely true and yet I still can't help but suspect that this is real motivation for this is just whining from a failed English grad student. I started complaining about Google after I didn't get hired by Google too. It's perfectly natural mate, join the club.
 
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Certified_Heterosexual

The Falklands are Serbian, you cowards.
Most of what you're saying is completely true and yet I still can't help but suspect that this is real motivation for this is just whining from a failed English grad student. I started complaining about Google after I didn't get hired by Google too. It's perfectly natural mate, join the club.

You're working off three-year-old information—a post written months after I graduated with an MA in history, not English. Not only am I not a failed grad student, but you're not even mocking me about the right subject.

As a stalker, you're embarrassingly incompetent. Find a new punching bag, idiot.
 

OliverCromwell

Permanently Banned
Permanently Banned
Subforum Ban (1 day) - The Athenaeum - The Boot has warned you twice to refrain from violating 2h, and yet you continue engaging in the same behavior. Take a day off from the Aetheneum and reflect on the rules.
You're working off three-year-old information—a post written months after I graduated with an MA in history, not English. Not only am I not a failed grad student, but you're not even mocking me about the right subject.

As a stalker, you're embarrassingly incompetent. Find a new punching bag, idiot.

Ah yes sorry, a history degree is much more useful for finding a job than an English degree, this screed about how idiot millenials are pursuing worthless liberal arts degrees isn't projection at all. I'm sure you're a successful PhD candidate doing research now, right? You certainly couldn't be a burnout who petulantly refused to pursue the PhD he'd actually need to make something out of his education because he was surrounded by too many libruls and then grew bitter in unemployment for a while before grudgingly accepting a job teaching in some podunk rural town at the ass end of nowhere for lack of other options like you probably swore you wouldn't end up doing when you started college, could you?

The standard of stalking has really gone down a lot if remembering "oh huh that's the guy on AH who was so dumb that he commissioned something in his original banned account's name while trying to keep a sockpuppet" and then looking up a few of your public past posts is stalking now, lol. I remember the olden days when people actually had to put effort into this sort of thing.

EDIT: Also, my dude, I didn't even notice this before just now but you write self-insert fanfiction, literally whoring your own identity out on the internet to LARP. It's not like details about you are hard to track down lol.
 
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LordsFire

Internet Wizard
You know Certified, it'd be a lot easier to take you seriously if you weren't constantly insulting people.

I absolutely think that student loans have been a key element in shattering the worth of the US higher education system, but your language is so aggravating I didn't even bother finishing reading your OP.

Are you trying to make a reasoned point, or trying to lash out at others?
 

Duke Nukem

Hail to the king baby
Ah yes sorry, a history degree is much more useful for finding a job than an English degree, this screed about how idiot millenials are pursuing worthless liberal arts degrees isn't projection at all. I'm sure you're a successful PhD candidate doing research now, right? You certainly couldn't be a burnout who petulantly refused to pursue the PhD he'd actually need to make something out of his education because he was surrounded by too many libruls and then grew bitter in unemployment for a while before grudgingly accepting a job teaching in some podunk rural town at the ass end of nowhere for lack of other options like you probably swore you wouldn't end up doing when you started college, could you?

The standard of stalking has really gone down a lot if remembering "oh huh that's the guy on AH who was so dumb that he commissioned something in his original banned account's name while trying to keep a sockpuppet" and then looking up a few of your public past posts is stalking now, lol. I remember the olden days when people actually had to put effort into this sort of thing.

EDIT: Also, my dude, I didn't even notice this before just now but you write self-insert fanfiction, literally whoring your own identity out on the internet to LARP. It's not like details about you are hard to track down lol.
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
You know Certified, it'd be a lot easier to take you seriously if you weren't constantly insulting people.

I absolutely think that student loans have been a key element in shattering the worth of the US higher education system, but your language is so aggravating I didn't even bother finishing reading your OP
That's entirely your problem I would say, wether he's right or wrong on any point is not effected by his being caustic in his delivery.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
I worked In academia, what they do not tell people or warn people about is how toxic it is and how low the pay is.

People complain about Ivory tower intelectuals but to be honest that would be an improvement over what we have today. An Ivory tower wouldn't be the overly politizized mess it is, and then you get into the corruption.

God the corruption embezzlement of funds happens all of the time, you guys wouldn't belive the number of times people have been caught red handed with their hands in the cookie jar....

Our higher educational system is a complete mess, and honestly we may have no choice but to let it die and switch to online colleges because of how bad it is.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
Student debt is a sorry subject. A generation or two of young people were told to stick their foot in a bear trap, and never told of the danger, and did so, and will now be to varying extents hobbled in perpetuity (as you can never really recover from money you could have otherwise made, even if the restraint is later removed).

The problem is of course that this is a painful, unfair lesson that we nonetheless need to learn. A generation of young people must limp through the rest of their economic lives as examples. Because if we were to wave the proverbial magic wand and remove that injury from them, we would never learn our lesson, we would never think of the consequences, we would always hold out hope that no matter how much we willingly subjected ourselves to the slavery of debt, one day we'd strike the jackpot and it would all magically vanish.


There is only one way to defeat academia, and that is to starve it. Starvation is the natural ends for all leftist entities. Have many children, raise them correctly, as non participants in the system that despises them. Do not participate in that which actively seeks to harm you to the greatest extent that you can.

Show the next generation, and the next, your injury of naive ignorance, and make them understand.

I think it would be reasonable to make them dischargeable in bankruptcy, treat it as normal debt. That I think would be sufficient relief for people who already have high debts: if maintaining your credit score is worth more than the pain of making your payments, good for them. If not, well, that's also their choice.

That would also fix something like 80% of the current problem with the loans going forward. Plus of course getting rid of subsididizing the loans in general.

Its much less harmful, if one wants to subsidize college, to just give grants to people/institutions, rather than subsidizing stupid debt.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
That's entirely your problem I would say, wether he's right or wrong on any point is not effected by his being caustic in his delivery.

That's his problem. If he wants people to listen to his thoughts, effective communication is key. When even people who largely agree with you find you too obnoxious to listen to, you're not going to persuade much of anybody of anything.

If there's some profound nugget of wisdom I missed by not going further in his post, yes, that's my problem. But I rather doubt that's the case.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
That's his problem. If he wants people to listen to his thoughts, effective communication is key. When even people who largely agree with you find you too obnoxious to listen to, you're not going to persuade much of anybody of anything.

If there's some profound nugget of wisdom I missed by not going further in his post, yes, that's my problem. But I rather doubt that's the case.

I dunno. It was edging towards satirical polemics there. Not sure if I could actually take it too seriously, though there was a serious point, since it even the potentially offensive material was wrapped up in a language and tone that made the righteous indignation seem more bemusing then.... (I gotta think on this one) baleful.

I don't think the one year guarantee would be a reliable feature anyhow. Some people just be ineffectual job hunters anyhow. Or went off course for various reasons into a different field. Or maybe they took a year off backpacking abroad or with the Peace Corps or just doing meth & masturbation. Streaming & Stoli! Etc.

Abhorsens suggestion of taking a percentage of income earned from the job for a period of time makes more sense IMHO and would compel the college to match grads with appropriate job paths. The knock on effects beyond it would be interesting to... Especially if certain better paying degree programs are emphasized over others. Or if it'd affect private donations etc.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Abhorsens suggestion of taking a percentage of income earned from the job for a period of time makes more sense IMHO and would compel the college to match grads with appropriate job paths. The knock on effects beyond it would be interesting to... Especially if certain better paying degree programs are emphasized over others. Or if it'd affect private donations etc.
It has been done experimentally as well, (I think at Stanford).
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
That's his problem. If he wants people to listen to his thoughts, effective communication is key. When even people who largely agree with you find you too obnoxious to listen to, you're not going to persuade much of anybody of anything.

If there's some profound nugget of wisdom I missed by not going further in his post, yes, that's my problem. But I rather doubt that's the case.
Correct is correct, incorrect is incorrect, if your ability to process the fact that the Sky is blue is hampered by the person explaining it calling you a piece of shit or something while they do it, that's your loss, and your ignorance.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
You know the really sad fact. I know and have run into a few people I call the career student. They are people who went to College after graduating High School. And are still in college. 10 years later. They have not graduated. All they do is get college loans and do some courses. Then they change their major rinse and repeat. I have no idea why they want to rack up the gargantuan debt they now have. But they just keep staying in school and not graduating.
 
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Bear Ribs

Well-known member
You know the really sad fact. I know and have run into a few people I call the career student. They are people who went to College after graduating High School. And are still in college. 10 years later. They have not graduated. All they do is get college loans and do some courses. Then they change their major rise and repeat. I have know idea why they want to rack up the gargantuan debt they know have. But they just keep staying in school and not graduating.
Because as long as you're still going to school you don't have to pay it back. I know a few people who are gaming the system this way. They know the debt is crushing so they keep going to school so that the bill isn't due while hoping for either that high-paying job they've been promised so that they can living on what's left after the debt, or that the entire system gets reformed and they're allowed to declare bankruptcy.

Edit: Basically I'd say it's a real-life version of shooting the moon in hearts.
 

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