DarthOne
☦️
Would be ver difficult given both would have access to each others heads. And I’m pretty sure the aforementioned personality traits would keep them from agreeing, and likely from even conceiving the idea.
Stargate Stargate ideas, Recommendations and discussion thread
- Thread starter DarthOne
- Start date
DaShoota
Member
I thought the idea of the Tari Solar System being dropped into the star trek universe Galaxy was a good idea. Did that story ever get started? I found this thread after I stumbled across that few days ago and realized you had been banned off of that site.
No way I could do it without making Stargate Earth an insufferable Mary Sue or breaking what makes both sides great. So I dropped it.
DaShoota
Member
I wonder if it would be better to change the story where 1st contact is done between the major powers and Earth B by having Daedalus or one of the other ships stumble across them while exploring trying to figure out WTF happened to put them there.
Give them a year and a 1/2 to 2 years of small scale exploration and instances happening Before any of the near major powers realize that a new star just popped up out of nowhere. Then give maybe 2 years where most of the major powers federation included think they are like the Packlets. Because they're technology and ships look primitive but have some weirdly advanced capabilities.
I think the key to the story would be keeping events small scale for the 1st several years. Following the Same model as the SG-1 story line. The 1st few years are small teams getting themselves into trouble and having to figure out a way to escape. Or find some way of succeeding. After that things escalate and the scale increases gradually over time.
Culminating with the major powers in the star trek universe eventually realizing and coming to grips with the fact that they're not dealing with a small colony or group of primitive humans that are just lost or misplaced for some reason. But an actual advanced civilization with capabilities far beyond their own.
(Sorry seems like I started outlining a story plot line.)
DaShoota
Member
OK.
I would add 1 of the major element plot point concepts from Babylon 5 into the story. Dropping little hints and ideas along the story that come to fruition as part of the main story later on.
For instance have a group of 50 or 60 Tok'Rah on earth studying the database in Atlantis. Remember despite the success of defeating the Goa'uld they are a dying race with no Queen. It's like a hive of ants or bees that suddenly had the Queen removed and no new eggs to become queens in the future. They would be digging through that database with everything they had in hope of transforming one of their members into a Queen may be more than one.
How would their presence on Earth especially if they managed to transform some of their members into queens affect the future development technological, social and otherwise of Earth B?
There's a certain spotted species of humanoids that live with symbiots that might decide to send an entirely separate envoy to earth B. Separate from any official federation delegation when they hear about a completely different species of symbiote that has different abilities from their own that blend with humans.
Everyone when doing stories like this have a habit of focusing or dare I say fixating on the federation. It might be a good idea to avoid that at least for most of the story. After all Earth B from the stargate universe has had many negative experiences with other human cultures that are quite frankly less alien to them than the federation would be.
Should also take into account the different idiosyncrasies within the various powers social and governmental structures despite what's demonstrated on most of the television shows. A lot of times the aspects that are demonstrated on the show are in some ways misrepresentative of the actual culture and government of the faction. You tend to have to dig deeper into the lore to get the truth behind many star trek factions cultures.
For instance Kardasian government structure is based on family structure. Their family structure is very rigid. So any time they are placed in charge of another race or species they have this same structure encompassing them. If that other race or species is rebellious, obstinate or in any way conflictive with that they are punished in much the same way a child would. Except it's not a child. It's an entire people.
It starts with a Stern talking to with them pointing out what they did wrong and what they should do right. If they continue to be rebellious they are essentially placed in a corner. If they continue to be rebellious after that they are sent to bed without any supper. If they continue the rebellious behavior the punishment continues to escalate. This makes them come off as being very authoritarian against anyone. They come off very much like space nazis.
However this same social structure is extended to anyone who conquers them. They will act as though they are the dutiful child whose mother or father just married a new spouse and they will bend over backwards in an attempt to placate them and Integrate themselves as singlessly as they possibly can into whatever new government structure their new government parent is willing to impose on them.
Another is Klingons. The Klingon Empire comes off as again racist in the Shows. However if you re-watch them with a critical eye you will see that they're not. They are violently meritocratic. Every klingon in a position of power is observed and spied on constantly. This is in case one of their underlings decides to take their position from them. The standard operating procedure for advancement in the klingon empire (this includes even the chancellor who controls the entire empire) is to confront the individual with verbal accusations and physical evidence usually demonstrated by a data pad. That they are incompetent and not doing the job very well. Then proceed to fight them to the death in Malay.
After of which your actions will be evaluated by those in a higher position than the one you just took. At which point if the individual you replaced is found to have been conducting an incompetent job. The job is now yours permanently until as starship troopers said. You either die or somebody better comes along. They don't actually care what species or race you are? This was demonstrated in TNG when Riker took a stint on a Klingon bird of prey. The whole recording clingos in position of power was demonstrated in the original series.
This is the actual reason for the continuous recording. Because somebody has to do a review as to whether or not you were actually in the right to take that person's job. (By the way if they were found to of killed their commanding officer negligently they would be executed so they don't actually advance unless they're sure that the guy above them is incompetent.)
As far as romulans go? They actually allowed a vat grown human clone to become the Ruler of their Empire.
Then there's the Feringi. They are actually ruled by whoever is the richest and owns the most assets. Doesn't matter what race they are. Just have to be a really good businessman. They went so far as to change their own religion when it was realized that the females of their species could actually bring in profit.
DaShoota
Member
Let's see the scene is set and a Solar System pops into the star trek universe.
Nobody notices. This new solar systems people realize something big has happened and sends one of their warships out to investigate. They come back with information that they're no longer in their universe and there's no stargate network.
OK they realize they can't keep the gate or anything secret anymore because everybody in a observatory is going to realize they're not in the same part of the Galaxy. So they have to come clean. They also realize they can't afford to send their major warships out to investigate and explore. It's just not cost effective and they need them for defense of the home system.
So they start working with their Tok'Rah allies to create some new shipyards the 1st of which will start mass producing a version of the Tel'Tak That's upgraded with Asgard and Atlantian technologies. It's a smaller ship it's easier to produce with the more advanced construction techniques the Tok'Rah possess in the new shipyards they can mass produce them. Now you have removed most of the major technological advantages from the stargate universe faction. They'll be capable of standing on their own against the major powers normal ships just long enough to escape.
Now let's deal with star trek versus stargate universe weapons.
While it's true that the weapons in the stargate universe are designed to produce and put on target far more energy than the weapons in the star trek universe do there's a very specific reasons for this within the different settings. Star trek directed energy weapons are not designed with mass amounts of energy being put on a single target in mind. Their weapons work by disrupting or fazing the strong and weak nuclear forces which hold atoms together to be disrupted or phase out of sync. That's actually where the names of disruptors and phasers originally come from.
The whole target vaporizes instead of just a small part of the target. There's no real indication that the armor in the stargate universe would do anything to stop a weapon that does that from doing just as much damage as they do to their own ships in the star trek universe.
Granted the only weapons that the star trek universe has that would have any real effect on the shields of any real threat would be their torpedo's at maximum yield. It would take a lot of them but if they ever actually brought the Shields down while the armor could shrug off torpedo attacks they may not be able to shrug off the directed energy weapon attacks. The two universe settings directed energy weapons just work on to completely different principles.
Then there's the design of the ships themselves. Because of the nature of star trek directed energy weapons and the effect they have on physical matter all of the various powers in that universe design their ships to lose huge chunks and sections of the ship being completely vaporized. They do this by having internal shield systems which snap on in place preventing the rest of the ship from being exposed to vacuum. The only real sections of a star trek universe's ship which cannot afford to take damage is the computer core, engineering and those big pontoons they use for their FTL drives. Pretty much every other part of the ship can be turned into swiss cheese and still be able to limp into port.
All that being said the stargate universe people on Earth B would be perfectly capable of adapting a new type of armor to make star trek directed energy weapons effectively worthless. They already have samples of the armor. In Anubis's supersoldiers uniforms. They should have quite a few samples of those armors just laying around for study and research. Converting that into a ship's haul coating to improve the armor of the ship would make disruptors and phasers worthless.
The real question in such a scenario is would they figure out that they could do that? Also How long would it take them to come up with a coating process to do exactly that. Transform that body armor material into a ship's hall coating.
(Personally now that I have the idea in my head. I envision something like one of those truck bed liner spray on coatings.)
Nobody notices. This new solar systems people realize something big has happened and sends one of their warships out to investigate. They come back with information that they're no longer in their universe and there's no stargate network.
OK they realize they can't keep the gate or anything secret anymore because everybody in a observatory is going to realize they're not in the same part of the Galaxy. So they have to come clean. They also realize they can't afford to send their major warships out to investigate and explore. It's just not cost effective and they need them for defense of the home system.
So they start working with their Tok'Rah allies to create some new shipyards the 1st of which will start mass producing a version of the Tel'Tak That's upgraded with Asgard and Atlantian technologies. It's a smaller ship it's easier to produce with the more advanced construction techniques the Tok'Rah possess in the new shipyards they can mass produce them. Now you have removed most of the major technological advantages from the stargate universe faction. They'll be capable of standing on their own against the major powers normal ships just long enough to escape.
Now let's deal with star trek versus stargate universe weapons.
While it's true that the weapons in the stargate universe are designed to produce and put on target far more energy than the weapons in the star trek universe do there's a very specific reasons for this within the different settings. Star trek directed energy weapons are not designed with mass amounts of energy being put on a single target in mind. Their weapons work by disrupting or fazing the strong and weak nuclear forces which hold atoms together to be disrupted or phase out of sync. That's actually where the names of disruptors and phasers originally come from.
The whole target vaporizes instead of just a small part of the target. There's no real indication that the armor in the stargate universe would do anything to stop a weapon that does that from doing just as much damage as they do to their own ships in the star trek universe.
Granted the only weapons that the star trek universe has that would have any real effect on the shields of any real threat would be their torpedo's at maximum yield. It would take a lot of them but if they ever actually brought the Shields down while the armor could shrug off torpedo attacks they may not be able to shrug off the directed energy weapon attacks. The two universe settings directed energy weapons just work on to completely different principles.
Then there's the design of the ships themselves. Because of the nature of star trek directed energy weapons and the effect they have on physical matter all of the various powers in that universe design their ships to lose huge chunks and sections of the ship being completely vaporized. They do this by having internal shield systems which snap on in place preventing the rest of the ship from being exposed to vacuum. The only real sections of a star trek universe's ship which cannot afford to take damage is the computer core, engineering and those big pontoons they use for their FTL drives. Pretty much every other part of the ship can be turned into swiss cheese and still be able to limp into port.
All that being said the stargate universe people on Earth B would be perfectly capable of adapting a new type of armor to make star trek directed energy weapons effectively worthless. They already have samples of the armor. In Anubis's supersoldiers uniforms. They should have quite a few samples of those armors just laying around for study and research. Converting that into a ship's haul coating to improve the armor of the ship would make disruptors and phasers worthless.
The real question in such a scenario is would they figure out that they could do that? Also How long would it take them to come up with a coating process to do exactly that. Transform that body armor material into a ship's hall coating.
(Personally now that I have the idea in my head. I envision something like one of those truck bed liner spray on coatings.)
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Think I'd enjoy this if Statgate Sol system popped up in Federation space a few years before the dominion war when tensions were slowly starting to rise. Sisko and Jack would be an entertaining meeting.
DaShoota
Member
That's the idea.I think the trick is to actually exclude the federation for the 1st several years.Everybody focuses on the federation and they either are 4 or against vehemently.When I was younger I was a federation fan boy. Now that I'm older I go back and watch TNG and several of the other shows and realize that I don't like them very much. The smug and arrogance just rolls off of them in waves.
There is actually a bit of an argument going around that I was able to dig up that the federation might be manipulated because of their universal translators. Turns out Picard is always speaking French not English. Section 31 or the computer system that created section 31 is supposedly the same system that created the 1st universal translators in the federation. The whole point of their creation of them is to manipulate. The federation or rather the creation and birth of the federation as well as to hold it together as a unified force.
The idea was to give them maybe 2 years running around in small advanced ships with teems like the SG teams. Doing exploration, discovery, finding lost or ancient technology making contact with ancient cultures on alien worlds and getting into trouble with the kardasians on occasion. Without the kardasians ever actually knowing who they are. Also coming into contact with and assisting the human colonies that were abandoned by the federation?
Then having 3 factions realized that a Solar System popped into place and send diplomatic envoys. The kardasians the feringy and the Federation because the Federation tends to stick its nose everywhere. Having the Earth SG command who's used to looking for anomalies in human cultures that make them dangerous realize that what Picard says and what is heard are different. Everybody gettin rubbed the wrong way because of the smug he throws off.
Then at some point have them set down after reviewing a basic history primer from the kardashians the faringi and the federation and go through each one. (Piecemeal.) Realizing the kardashians did quite a bit of lying to make themselves look better the faringi only lied in one regard to making the guy who actually showed up seemed more important than he actually is. Other than that they'll be completely honest and truthful.
Then look at the federation go back and review several times when picard says they don't use money they're beyond that and realize that he and his crew are actually being paid in federation credits. Think he either is lying. Doesn't know what hes saying, saying something different or being manipulated and completely ignorant.
Point all of this out to the card and say politely that while they're not against relations with the federation they would prefer to have an envoy who. Is actually up on human history and realizes that the credit system they are using was developed on Earth in the 19th century and yes it is a monetary system. . Also that they're diplomatic section of the federation should get its stuff together before sending another envoy. Thank you goodbye you can leave now.
Then in the setting have the whole exploration and discovery transition into kind of an underground cold war involving spies and other things from both the obsidian order whatever the foreigni have for a network and section 31 competing against the people of Earth. Think super high Tech space scifi version of the James Bond movies. During that period have the other major powers Klingons, Romulans etcetera discovered the new Earth and get there spy networks involved.
Then round that up with the invasion of the Dominion. The dominion attacks Federation Earth does quite a bit of damage with their allies. Then on their way out they decide to attack the other Earth because the founders are a bunch of paranoid idiots who can't really help themselves. They wind up Breaking their teeth on the solar systems built up defenses. That they've had close to 5 or 6 years to build-up by now. Drawing Earth B into the war.
Earth B enters the war with the new full scale warships that they've managed to construct at record speed using the advanced construction techniques that the Tok'Rah have been helping them develop.
Personally I actually prefer the Goa'uld ships from the stargate races mod's. I just think that the earth B blocking ships actually do lack style and look kind of primitive. Also since they actually have Tok'Rah influence in the design of the next classes of ships. I would just insert those mods. Maybe add a new type of fighter as well.
