Star Trek Star Trek Picard Discussion Thread

Battlegrinder

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I realize we kinda already have a thread on this, but as that thread was set up specfically to discuss a now-less-than-accurate prerelease rumor, I think having a proper, dedicated thread for the full show is fitting.

Thus far, I feel like it probably would have benefited from a traditional 2 hour pilot, since it's trying to catch us up on the new status quo and set up the plot, which is too much to ask for from a 45 minutes episode (granted, it's not always needed. Orville didn't have one, but Orville was also running with "like TNG unless stated otherwise" as the starting worldbuilding so I guess it didn't really need that).
 

S'task

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So, my initial thoughts:

1. A agree with @Battlegrinder it could have used a two hour pilot, even so, they managed to fit a lot of worldbuilding in a very short time.

2. While I'm not a huge fan of Discovery, I have to give both Discovery and STP this: in an era focused on quick openings and blink and you'll miss it title cards, they have both carried on the Star Trek tradition of having a proper opening sequence. While they are not as good as the TNG era openings, they are still proper OPENINGS, and for that I give them credit!

3. A lot of good subtle "this is Star Trek" things. The cityscapes all gave a good futuristic feel while still feeling like lived in cities (I was especially amused by the big Ferengi advertisement on the side of a building in Boston) lots of just... random Federation member species all over. Dahj's boyfriend, I spotted a rando Trill as part of the interviewer's crew, etc. That's good dedication to worldbuilding especially seeing how background characters could be done cheaply and there would be little to no need to do such.

I'm genuinely curious to see where this is going. Overall, a solid first episode that, to be frank, did a much MUCH better job of setting things up than "The Vulcan Hello" did for Discovery.
 

Terthna

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A lot of good subtle "this is Star Trek" things.
Most of that was probably Michael Chabon's doing; the guy CBS put in charge after ousting Alex Kurtzman from the position of showrunner, and told to make it as much like old Star Trek as possible. Unfortunately, Kurtzman was able to eventually get him ousted as well, by using his position as owner of production company Secret Hideout, and has been hard at work undoing everything that had been done to fix his mess. As the show goes on, expect it to feel more and more like STD.
 

Battlegrinder

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Oh, and just to set the record straight about Picard working with STO, that is not the case, as both STO proper and the STO novel Greater Than The Sum have plot points incompatible with Picard. Off the top of my head, here are the main issues:

1. Uniforms. In STO, the federation wears the Odyssey uniform, which is a stylistic evolution of the TNG film/DS9 uniform. The Picard uniform, however, changes course and is instead a descendant of the VOY uniform.

2. Mars. Mars is on fire in Picard, somehow. In STO, it is not.

3. Data. In Picard, Data is dead forever, the memory transfer in B4 eventually failed and whatever was left of him faded away. In STO, it didn't work entirely until a team lead by Bruce Maddox managed to figured out how to fully restore Data, and Data is still alive and still in starfleet as of STO.

4. Picard himself. In STO, Picard resigned from starfleet in 2385, to become Abassador to Vulcan. In STP, he resigned several years later after Hobus (year 2387) and just flat our retired.

5. In STO, the federation relief fleet arrived to assist the romulans, in STP it did not.


What STP is doing, as mentioned by the Odyssey class ship (and possibly the thing with Maddox) is mine STO for ideas and concepts, but the rest of what it's doing has no connection to STO.
 

commanderkai

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I made this post on Reddit, so I figured I'd put it here. The idea is why Picard resigned from Starfleet, stating it's not the same Starfleet as he remembers. If the show handles it well (which is....doubtful), such a statement would make good sense considering the realities of the Star Trek universe circa 2399.

I think that the Dominion War had a huge impact on Starfleet and it's goals and priorities. Picard's Starfleet career was mostly during peacetime. There were some skirmishes, but for the most part, it was rather peaceful. Only after he became Captain did the threats of the Borg, and later the Dominion become on the forefront of Starfleet policy. The Dominion War especially had a huge change in Starfleet, and likely the Federation as a whole.
The Federation came out of the Dominion War as victors, but it was a bloody affair. The homeworlds of at least two major Federation species came under Dominion occupation (Betazed and Benzar), along with who knows how many colonies. I don't think the Dominion would carry it it's more violent pacification strategies until after the war (as a reminder, Weyoun's plan for Earth was to eradicate the population to curtail future resistance to Dominion rule), I still expect significant destruction on these planets.
Post-Dominion War, Starfleet will have likely lost many of it's officers that remember the Starfleet dedicated to exploration, be it through the war, or even through retirement and aging out. To replace them, Starfleet now consists of personnel whose careers will be primarily the Dominion War, or cadets and newly enlisted personnel that will have a good chance of coming from planets who suffered from Dominion occupation, and will likely hold more hawkish views on Starfleet's role in the Federation.

With the attack on Mars, a huge number of Starfleet personnel were killed likely including many of Starfleet's more "Picard-esque" captains, and admirals who agreed with Picard's lobbying to help the Romulans. The attack likely gave those in Starfleet who preferred a more militarist attitude, wanting the fleet to defend against threats, rather than lose more resources and personnel on a humanitarian mission.

I'd expect that the Federation as a whole still provided support, including welcoming refugees, paying privately owned vessels to help with the evacuation, etc. but Starfleet refocused it's efforts on military defense, rather than humanitarian aid.

Picard certainly isn't happy with these changes, but to the 30 something year old Benzar Captain, who joined Starfleet after his world suffered Dominion occupation, I would expect a different viewpoint than Picard. I expect that Benzar to prefer keeping his ship in strategic defensive positions in case the Borg pop up or something, rather than risk his home coming under assault. The new generation within Starfleet likely sees the occupation of key Federation worlds as a greater failure of Starfleet principles that should not be repeated.
 

S'task

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Yeah. The folks bitching about how "this is not the Federation and Starfleet of TNG" (like the RedLetterMedia review) I find... rather disingenuous. I mean, I like the optimistic view of thing too; however, I also like verisimilitude, and find the idea of a more isolationist and militaristic Federation and Starfleet in the aftermath of the Borg and Dominion War to be a very believable thing.

Oh, @commanderkai, you're forgetting that not only were two worlds occupied in the Dominion War, but that Earth had come under direct attack TWICE in the same period. The first by the Borg where their cube was literally destroyed in Earth Orbit (and you can bet such a spectacular light show was visible from the planet's surface) and SECOND in the Dominion War by the Breen. Sure, it was never occupied, but the aura of Earth's safety and invincibility was pretty firmly shattered by those events as well, with the synth uprising on Mars serving as the final blow. That would have a huge impact on humans too, and we know that when humans are threatened in their homeland, they tend to... overreact.
 

commanderkai

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Oh, @commanderkai, you're forgetting that not only were two worlds occupied in the Dominion War, but that Earth had come under direct attack TWICE in the same period. The first by the Borg where their cube was literally destroyed in Earth Orbit (and you can bet such a spectacular light show was visible from the planet's surface) and SECOND in the Dominion War by the Breen. Sure, it was never occupied, but the aura of Earth's safety and invincibility was pretty firmly shattered by those events as well, with the synth uprising on Mars serving as the final blow. That would have a huge impact on humans too, and we know that when humans are threatened in their homeland, they tend to... overreact.

I didn't really factor in the reaction of Earth's population, but you're right, it makes sense they would also feel much more vulnerable after the Breen attack on Earth, and the attack upon Mars. The Breen attack was damaging, but it was an attack during a massive war. Plus, the Breen ships were destroyed very quickly, limiting damage. The destruction of the Utopia Planitia fleetyards should be an even bigger blow, as it is during a 'peaceful' time post-war. The destruction of the Utopia Planitia fleetyards was attacking the military proper, and losing painfully. A task force had to be mobilized, and weren't able to react fast enough to save a key military facility.

I disagree that the Federation turned "Xenophobic". I expect there to be a decent population of Romulans on Earth and throughout the Federation without issue.
 

bullethead

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Like I said in the SB thread, I generally found the premiere to be solid, but one of the more confusing things about it was the whole "army of rogue synthetics" bit of the backstory, mostly because the show and the prequel Short Trek didn't answer why anyone would actually do that.

One thing that I hope the show addresses is how the Klingons reacted to those events, because all I can think of is this:
pHchzrc.jpg
 

commanderkai

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So episode 2 came out....a few thoughts:

I'm meh on this secret organization within the Tal Shiar. It seems akin to Section 31... which Discovery has utterly soured me on. But I'll keep an open mind for now. That being said having some faction or division of the Tal Shiar be responsible is fine by me

HUGE SPOILER BELOW

And the Romulans have infiltrated Starfleet. I expect that they've done so for a very, very long time. Plus there is some...sympathetic elements within Starfleet (likely stemming from the Mars attack, but perhaps before too) that are working with the Romulans.

The admiral that Picard meets with at Starfleet to try acquire a command of a ship, and her smackdown of Picard was perfect, in my view. Picard burned bridges when he left Starfleet, and that interview rehashed grudges and resentment within Starfleet against Picard.

I'm also glad to see member species within the Federation were opposed to assisting the Romulans, especially after the Mars attack. The Romulans were not always friendly, and even though humans in Star Trek may be forgiving, I'm sure some alien species hold longer grudges.

So many alien species walking around as extras. The number of alien species around is fantastic. Andorians, Tellarites, Trill, even the variety of Romulans is amazing.

Looks gorgeous. I would like to see some sort of memorial to the Breen attack on San Fransisco when he went to Starfleet, but ah well.

Fucking terrifying. The CGI work and the stuff when they were removing the implants was excellent. They're such an omnious presence even when inactive.
 

Husky_Khan

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Looks like CBS is putting up the first episode of Star Trek: Picard for free on their YouTube account for a limited time.

 

Shipmaster Sane

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What a load of shit. A huge slap in the face to anyone who likes star trek.
Dodge looks like she has down syndrome.
Oh, yes, Romulans and robots running the vineyard, thats just what Robert would have wanted.



Anyway, is there any way to scale the Romulan Android mega cube?
 

commanderkai

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Remember that time at the end of Deep Space Nine where it was said that the Federation and Romulans would be the new powers in the post Dominion War world... :sneaky:

I blame JJ Abrams for that. That horrible Star Trek 2009. Blech.

But...that brings up an interesting point. With Romulus destroyed, and the Cardassians barely starting reconstruction, who is the Federation's counterweight right now? The Klingons are allies, and I don't think they went the STO route of breaking that alliance.

Perhaps some oftmentioned but never actually depicted species popping up?
 

S'task

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So, four episode maintained the overall quality of the show so far and introduced two new characters. The young Romulan swordsman from all the trailers, and an old Star Trek hand, Seven of Nine. Nice action sequences, and a lot of discussion and character moments too. Yet more Romulan worldbuilding that... I'm going to be frank, I just love because we're seeing all kinds of little insights into the Romulans and they are becoming so much more three dimensional than they ever were before.

That said, I will say this... the pacing of the show is slow. It is seriously taking its time in building up things and moving pieces into place, which allows time for the character moments and worldbuilding, but it makes each episode suffer as they often don't have strong individually contained stories. I actually feel like this show, even more than Discovery, was really meant to be watched in a binge, as the weekly format they're using now definitely feel off.

That said, still enjoying it, and much more into it than I was at this point with Discovery.
 

bullethead

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Honestly, it made me feel real happy to see actual planetary defenses, even if it continues to make the Federation look stupid for not even putting in a tenth of the effort to protect their planets.

Seeing a slightly upgraded TOS Bird of Prey was nice, even if it was just for one episode. That Romulan pirate should get a show, because that would be a great way to further explore the ground level of the universe.
 

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