Ukraine doesn't want to prolong it. Russia does and always has. Trump doesn't seem to want to give Ukraine any help and just gives Russia everything and seems to only threaten sanctions
Russian Invasion of Ukraine 2022
- Thread starter killerofa23
- Start date
And guess what, Ukraine is constantly asking for more Patriot interceptors and batteries, and the US literally cannot make enough of those to fill all the demand for them
F-16's can very much still matter in the Pacific, because of the island bases that will need air defense interceptors.
Or do you expect Guam and other islands to only be defended by naval air assets?
They may be learning, but UA military leadership is still showing that they still hold to the old Soviet play book in many regards.
Hopefully this is changing, and fast.
Ukraine cannot replicate the western way of war, and is stuck improvising, which means they have the means to hold ground they have, but not take back their own lands, as they wish to do.
The Kursk/Belgorod incursions take some pressure off other areas of the front, but run into the issue of Russia no longer is leaving those rear areas undermanned, and UA risks it's people getting cut off in Russian lands, like what nearly happened a few weeks ago.
I'm not sure how the attempts to use carrots with Russia will shake out, and I think Trump is running out of patience with Putin.
But beyond increasing sanctions and maybe adding a few longer range weapons to the next munition delivery, about the only option besides directly engaging Russians with US forces is issuing Letters of Marque against the shadow tanker fleet.
And Trump hasn't signaled he is seriously considering Letters of Marque, even if some GOP Congresscritters like the idea.
Not politically, it isn't, and that's what you like to ignore, that political realities mean UA isn't going to be getting swamped with thousands of armored vehicles and hundreds of tactical jets.
It almost seems like you'd prefer western leadership and media to act more like the Russian leadership and media, regardless of what it would do to things like Constitutional Rights.
War weariness is also for people who have seen 20 fucking years of pointless and futile warfare in the MidEast come to naught, have seen how up their own ass's many NAFO types are with TDS and EDS, have seen Zelensky go from a potential Churchhill to nearly Baghdad Bob levels of trying to pretend things are better than they are, while also having Zelensky do the diplo equivalent of blowing one of his nation's own feet off.
Then again, you consider anyone who doesn't want a war to destroy Russia, as a nation, to be a 'peacenik'.
Wish-casting about 'make it realistic', instead of dealing with the realities of current limits, shows you are simply not willing to deal with political realities as they are, and instead demand realities change to fit your desired outcome.
You cannot change domestic and logistical realities in the US and west by being angry and trying to shit on anyone who does deal with realities you refuse to accept.
There simply aren't many more levers to use on Russia that will be accepted by the US domestic scene.
More sanctions and maybe some new toys in the munitions deliveries, at most Letters of Marque on the shadow tanker fleet, would be about it.
So yes, there are more levers to use to get UA to compromise on it's desires, than there are levers to use to try to force Russia to the table or off UA's lands.
It's reality, even if it is diplomatically uncouth to admit it in public.
There are more sanctions that can be leveled, and more ways to squeeze Russia economically.
And yes, UA's getting more demands for it to change it's position/demands, because UA has less leverage in the situation.
You just refuse to deal with the reality of UA's lack of leverage and the realities of these sorts of negotiations, because it doesn't paint the picture you want to see.
Russia will not get a deal that makes it happy, neither will Ukraine be happy with any deal made.
Sanctioned at a 3/10 level, because Biden didn't want to risk more 'escalation', while also not even trying for negotiations.
Trump can increase the sanctions, and make them hurt even worse, if Putin keeps trying to play these fuck-fuck games.
Zelensky has never said he'd give up legal claims to any territory, just acknowledge it as 'occupied', which is not the same thing as actual territorial consessions, which require giving up legal claims.
This distinction seems to be something you are attempting to gloss over, just to pretend Zelensky hasn't said UA won't give up legal claims to 'occupied' areas.
Again, as above, I've only seen talk of accepting some areas as 'occupied' lands, not giving up formal legal claims, which is what actual territorial consessions entail.
Short of destroying Russia as a nation, trying to get them to be effectively neutral in a US/CCP fight is the best option we have.
And Trump isn't going to authorize the actions that would be required to destroy Russia as a nation, nor does most of his base have any desire for the sort of war that would be required in order to destroy Russia as a nation.
Russia nationalized what was left in Russia, that is true; but what that misses is that much of what Russia wants back in it's market from the US/West is shit it couldn't nationalize, like the tech knowledge from western oil comapnies who built, repaired, and maintained many of Russia's refineries.
Shit, nationalizing US built civie airliners became a fucking clusterfuck, when the maintaince/logistics trail that use to maintain those planes ran out of part in Russia, and couldn't import more easily.
Nationalizing assets doesn't do a lot in the long run, if the logistics trail for said assets wasn't completely in Russia to begin with.
Trump trying to negotiate an end to this conflict was treated as 'Russia playing him for a fool' from the first time he mentioned it, and Trump knows better than you do what realistic levers he has against Russia and Ukraine.
I woud point out that Ukraine has not been kind to Trump, for years now.
The Impeachment in his first term was caused by Vindman, an ethnic Ukrainian, lying about Trump's phonecall with Zelensky.
Then we have the NAFO types unhinged TDS for years against Trump, MAGA, and the GOP in general, which alienated a lot of Trump's base from UA's fight.
And we have the lies about the "Russian Collusion Hoax", which made Trump very much not a friend of the same people who championed UA later. Dems decided to make UA a teamball issue, the NAFO types went whole hog against Trump for years, and the GOP base started seeing UA as a Dem pet issue, not something that necessarily would affect the US if we walked away.
Finally, the simple fact is Russia has leverage and the US has leverage, Ukraine doesn't have any leverage besides the rare earth minerals, and Zelensky has completely fucked up the situation with the mineral deal, which should have been signed and done that day at the WHite House, but Zelensky had to start his bullshit with Vance, when Vance wasn't even addressing him.
People die in war, that is the nature of it, and pretending every little missile strike on UA should be blamed on Trump and used to harangue Trump is part of why peple have simply began ignoring a lot of UA supporters.
Emotional blackmail attempts do not work on the GOP/Trump's Admin, because that is exactly the methodology the Dems tried to use to fuck with the GOP for decades, and to which MAGA has become immune.
Trying to harp on every civie death in Ukraine and try to use it aganst Trump just makes people take you, and others who attempt it, less seriously.
Bleeding Russia indefinitely, to the point UA does have to start drafting anyone over 18, isn't going to get UA a better deal, and isn't going to cause an uprising in Russia that will remove Putin from power.
It also isn't what Trump is interested in.
Trump is talking about how the Maidan started the conflict in 2014, not just the full scale invasion of 2022.
The fact is the way the Maidan happened does very much count as 'UA starting things', even if it was mostly organic and a response to Russian fuckery in UA domestic politics.
And this might surprise you, but just ignoring the Russian point of view in negotiations like this doesn't accomplish anything, other than satisfying those more interested in ideological purity spirals than actually accomplishing anything realistic or meaningful.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
You really don't want those bases to rely heavily on F-16's burning painstakingly supplied through the harassment of Chinese maritime militia fuel while busying limited (by constant attacks) functional runways needed for the more capable planes with constant takeoffs and landings to refuel due to low loiter time for their continued existence.
Base runway damaged/mined by ballistic missile strike > planes can't take off to defend base > second wave strike with drones or cruise missiles can hit the base without planes being in the air in an hour or two.
Ground ones above all...
Those new clever ways to stick AMRAAMs on ground launchers aren't being made for no reason at all.
SLAMRAAM - Wikipedia
Without getting into NG ones, nevermind the few hundreds of them in Boneyard - it's spare F-16's are so plentiful that they are being used as QF-16 target practice drones since quite some time.
Again, the logistics are not good for using many of those in Pacific.
At this point they have pretty much their own unique one.
This is a political cowardice motivated crime against art of war. Demanding them to strike exactly where the enemy is most prepared is the opposite of good art of war... That's exactly how victories against all odds are *not* created.
Russia does leave a lot of areas undermanned. As you saw, it took them quite a few months to man the Kursk area enough to push Ukrainians out, so clearly they weren't there, or even close. There's a lot more of RU-UA border than this... Russia does not have infinite forces, and they absolutely do not defend absolutely everything equally. Ukraine's ability to create a short blanket effect for Russian forces by forcing them to yank around large forces, straining logistics and organization while at it, is one way they can get successes, but they need highly mobile mechanized units for that.
I am. They will be used up and then thrown away, like a piece of toilet paper. Many such stories involving Russia.
Again, lack of imagination or false binary. Both USA and EU have plenty of ability to throw more military hardware at the problem if they dig deeper into the pockets and warehouses.
And that's without even getting into developing the same cheeky hybrid warfare stuff that Russia prides itself on.
History carries plenty of ideas, and Russia itself is playing in that gray area very boldly.
Some EU countries are pulling off the same result against Russian sneaky tankers without those already.
The realm of political reality is a realm of will, it is quite blurry and flexible. There are some people who could make it realistic if only they wanted to, and Donald Trump is certainly one of those.
A good reminder that just because something is legal is no defense against accusation of that activity being scummy and/or utterly retarded and need to be considered as such, instead of some sort of heroic fight against the establishment or something.
And a warning, in the end what victors think matters, and it doesn't matter the color of the cat, only whether it catches mice.
If we don't figure out a way to solve this conundrum, sooner or later someone will do it for us, probably in a way we don't like.
>seen
I don't think so. You mean on a screen. If it's too much, you can always turn it off. Some people certainly should, they are acting as if they are getting war weariness by proxy even though they live on the other side of the globe from the actual war. Again, media, culture, psyops. It is a separate battlefield in and of itself. If you wanna fight on it, fight, if not, admit that you want to capitulate.
Correction, many NAFO types are just simply leftists who also happen to attach themselves to NAFO for this or that reason, but they still remain leftists. Just like some other leftists who join, say, the 40k fandom, or even the fucking knitting boards, and then shit it up by pushing own leftist pet peeves on it above the core goal of that community.
Also no matter how good or bad Zelensky did in the talks, it would have done nothing to change the minds of Vance or Sacks or some other people who have the president's ear on their foreign policy priorities.
If by some odd circumstance Ukraine's leadership changed to Zaluzhny or Poroshenko, i think very little would have changed at all in terms of certain US political factions supporting Ukraine or not. Some arguments would have to be retired, few new ones would come in, but in the end it would be a similar shitshow.
I consider anyone who doesn't consider war an ordinary part of history of civilization that one preferably would want to be on the victor side of to be a "peacenik".
Much like Biden's "current limits" that are no longer current for some mysterious reasons, those limits are not created by solid boundaries of technology or economy. They are arbitrary and completely self-imposed.
Sure, *i* cannot change them. But there are people and organizations who absolutely could if they wanted t o.
Trump of all people has an ability to change "domestic realities" of the sort you allude to at will to a degree *that is scaring the shit out of shitlib talking heads*, and the logistical realities, well, good luck finding anyone more interested in being competent in those matters than in political shitposting for the sake of confirming preexisting political convictions of own camp who claims nothing more can be done without hitting logistical boundries.
One man's supposed reality is a thinly veiled excuse for another, who is right?
Now that's just political jujitsu bullshitry.
By that logic Russia "started all the things" by allowing Putin to circumvent term limits in the first place.
If we're going to put blame for starting things into other sovereign countries' domestic governance, i don't think Russia, USA or any other country will like the implication of that.
Russian view about such things carries as much value as me adopting the view that you owe me a trillion dollars.
In no way reasonable, but why not, if only to just show gracious willingness to compromise compromise on just a mere part of that sum.
Yes, everyone knows that Russian leadership, current and past ones too, tend to have some very nuanced yet eyebrow raising views on the sovereignty of countries not called Russia, especially those unfortunate enough to be located close to one who is.
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Germany Looking to Supplying Ukraine with the Taurus Cruise Missile.
Ukraine Launched an Assault on April 15th against the 448th Missile Brigade in Kursk which reportedly launched the deadly Palm Sunday Sumy Attacks.
Russian Mass Motorcycle Assault?
Ukrainian 2S7 Pion SPG's can apparently utilize American M106 203mm artillery ammunition intended for the now retired M110 SPG's once in American service.
Russia targeting schools in occupied areas of Ukraine for potential "recruits" for their three day special military operations as well as other potential personnel shortfalls.
www.themoscowtimes.com
Unsurprisingly Mostly False Advertising on behalf of Germany.
Ukraine Launched an Assault on April 15th against the 448th Missile Brigade in Kursk which reportedly launched the deadly Palm Sunday Sumy Attacks.
Russian Mass Motorcycle Assault?
Ukrainian 2S7 Pion SPG's can apparently utilize American M106 203mm artillery ammunition intended for the now retired M110 SPG's once in American service.
Russia targeting schools in occupied areas of Ukraine for potential "recruits" for their three day special military operations as well as other potential personnel shortfalls.
Moscow Times said:
In Occupied Ukraine, Russia's Security Forces Target Schools for Recruitment - The Moscow Times
“Down!
www.themoscowtimes.com
Unsurprisingly Mostly False Advertising on behalf of Germany.
False advertisement: German Ministry of Defence corrects newest Ukraine aid package | GAU
One week after its announcement, the German Ministry of Defence had to correct its communication on the recently announced military aid package for Ukraine.
deaidua.org
Tis but a small fire, a result of rare Russian safety code violations. No one was hurt. Ignore the explosions and mushroom cloud. Carry on!
The Alabuga Shahed/Geran Drone Factory was Struck by Ukrainian Drones Yet Again Reportedly. The facility, which boasts being capable of producing 25,000 Shahed style drones a year and with a large component of its workforce being school aged teeangers, had its industrial areas struck about five times.
The Alabuga Factory is located well over a thousand kilometers away from the Ukrainian border and was struck by Ukrainian drones last year as well in April of 2024. In the wake of those attacks, the owner of the Factory stated they should retaliate by taking Berlin and Paris as they did back in 1815.
Hangar holding Russian Armored Vehicles Burned Down by a Ukrainian Drone that Flew in Through an Open Door.
Russian Ballistic Missile Attack Upon Kyiv Last Night
The Rare Ukrainian Ultra Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle... the BMP-55 made from a modified T-55 Main Battle Tank of course.
www.twz.com
The Alabuga Factory is located well over a thousand kilometers away from the Ukrainian border and was struck by Ukrainian drones last year as well in April of 2024. In the wake of those attacks, the owner of the Factory stated they should retaliate by taking Berlin and Paris as they did back in 1815.
Hangar holding Russian Armored Vehicles Burned Down by a Ukrainian Drone that Flew in Through an Open Door.
Russian Ballistic Missile Attack Upon Kyiv Last Night
The Rare Ukrainian Ultra Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle... the BMP-55 made from a modified T-55 Main Battle Tank of course.
Extremely Rare Ukrainian Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle Appears On Battlefield
This may well be the only example of a BMP-55 heavy infantry fighting vehicle, based on a T-55 tank, to have been completed. This may well be the only example of a BMP-55 heavy infantry fighting vehicle, based on a T-55 tank, to have been completed.
www.twz.com
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
From 3 all the way to 55, what an upgrade!
oh...what's that quote again? Oh yeah, "All's fair in love and war!"
Ukrainian Domestic Production of the 155mm Bohdana Self Propelled Gun Reaches Thirty Six Units a Month.
Rest in Peace to Major General Yaroslav Moskalik who is reportedly the Deputy Chief of the Russian General Staff's Main Operational Directorate. A car bomb exploded while he was passing by said car while heading out from home, killing him. The bombing took place in Moscow.
Rest in Peace also to Evgeny Ritikov, a civilian engineer and designer of Electronic Warfare systems for the Russian military at the Bryansk Electromechanical Plant. His car reportedly exploded while he and a work colleague were entertaining the vehicle. Neither of them survived.
And lastly Rest in Peace to Michael Gloss, the son of the Deputy Director of the CIA for Digital Innovation. A world traveler, engineering student, Eco-Activist, Anti-Fascist, Climate Activist and Feminist who did aid work in Central American and Turkey before traveling to Russia. He reportedly later evolved into believing NATO was the evolution of Adolf Hitler's Nazi Party and volunteered for service in the Russian military and became a staunch supporter of Russia.
He was reportedly killed in action in early April of 2024 somewhere near Bakhmut as a member of the elite Russian Airborne forces during an assault. For some reason his family wasn't able to retrieve his remains and hold a funeral until December of 2024, His father stated he suffered from mental illness and obsession with various conspiracy theories relating to neo-Nazism and "water purification."
istories.media
kyivindependent.com
nypost.com
Rest in Peace to Major General Yaroslav Moskalik who is reportedly the Deputy Chief of the Russian General Staff's Main Operational Directorate. A car bomb exploded while he was passing by said car while heading out from home, killing him. The bombing took place in Moscow.
Rest in Peace also to Evgeny Ritikov, a civilian engineer and designer of Electronic Warfare systems for the Russian military at the Bryansk Electromechanical Plant. His car reportedly exploded while he and a work colleague were entertaining the vehicle. Neither of them survived.
And lastly Rest in Peace to Michael Gloss, the son of the Deputy Director of the CIA for Digital Innovation. A world traveler, engineering student, Eco-Activist, Anti-Fascist, Climate Activist and Feminist who did aid work in Central American and Turkey before traveling to Russia. He reportedly later evolved into believing NATO was the evolution of Adolf Hitler's Nazi Party and volunteered for service in the Russian military and became a staunch supporter of Russia.
He was reportedly killed in action in early April of 2024 somewhere near Bakhmut as a member of the elite Russian Airborne forces during an assault. For some reason his family wasn't able to retrieve his remains and hold a funeral until December of 2024, His father stated he suffered from mental illness and obsession with various conspiracy theories relating to neo-Nazism and "water purification."
“He Was Forging His Own Hero’s Journey When He Was Tragically Killed in Eastern Europe”
How the son of a CIA deputy director set out to backpack around the world and to save the planet — but ended up in the Russian army and died in the war in Ukraine
istories.media
CIA deputy director’s son killed while fighting for Russia in Ukraine, investigation claims
Michael Gloss studied Human Ecology at Middlebury College in Vermont and was described by friends as an eco-activist, women’s rights supporter, and anti-fascist.
kyivindependent.com
Radicalized son of a CIA director was killed fighting for Russia in Ukraine: report
“With his noble heart and warrior spirit Michael [Gloss] was forging his own hero’s journey when he was tragically killed in Eastern Europe,” his obit said.
nypost.com
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
No shit Sherlock. The man sounded like a raving lunatic.
This is shocking! Who could've predicted this?
Apparently North Korean Troops have been fighting alongside the Russians in their Special Military Operation against Ukraine for MONTHS now!
apnews.com
Now Russian media is awash with media showing North Korean troops side by side with their (inferior equipped) Russian counterparts.
I know this development is a surprise for all of us... How could we all collectively of missed the evidence of North Korean involvement for weeks, even months...
Apparently North Korean Troops have been fighting alongside the Russians in their Special Military Operation against Ukraine for MONTHS now!
Putin thanks North Korea for troop deployment and promises not to forget their sacrifices
Russian President Vladimir Putin is thanking North Korean troops for fighting Ukrainian forces in Russia’s Kursk region.
apnews.com
Now Russian media is awash with media showing North Korean troops side by side with their (inferior equipped) Russian counterparts.
I know this development is a surprise for all of us... How could we all collectively of missed the evidence of North Korean involvement for weeks, even months...
Hmm, wonder if another Cessna will visit Red Square, this time with a more...special surprise in it.
Article: Killing a Russian soldier: 6 points.
Damaging an enemy tank: 20 points.
To motivate soldiers at the front, and making sure the most efficient units are well-supplied, Ukraine has introduced a new points system called 'Army of Drones'.
Ukrainian soldiers can now collect points on the battlefield and get better equipment for those points. If you kill a Russian soldier, you get 6 points. If you damage a tank, you get 20 points, but if you manage to destroy it completely, you get 40 points. For the points to be registered, a video of the hit must be uploaded to the Brave Market 1 platform as proof.
The points can then be used to "buy" different types of military equipment on a special website, described as an "Amazon for military equipment.
"The website has all types of weapons, drones and AI systems.
A so-called "vampire drone", for example, costs 43 points. The website also publishes a top list of which units have collected the most points.
So far, about 90% of units have registered points. The elite drone unit Magyar Birds is top of the table with more than 16 000 points.
The aim of the scoring system is to send more equipment to the most efficient units.
Well, this seems like a good system; it rewards units that are the most effective at taking out Russians, and the units who make the best use of their drone resources.