Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
Skimming through this thread, I'm seeing a bit too much "if you disagree with me then you're a bad person" type argumentation. Along with "if you say X, then you're really saying WYZ and that makes you a (insert bad person label)."
That sort of thing poisons debate.

I think we all know about those forums where on any subject that matters, the admins impose a very narrow Overton Window, and anyone who dares to express an opinion that goes outside that, let alone argue in defense of said position, gets kicked out for "debating in bad faith".
 
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Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Sending troublesome young men off to die in a war is an ancient practice, or so I'm told.



Be glad that Putin didn't instead pull a Castro and send all the Russian criminals to the West as "refugees".
Oh but they do worse, they import Middle East's criminals to send as "refugees". They need their own criminals for assault infantry. Though it doesn't work as good as the other options because there are based countries on the border, rather than bleeding heart socialist run ones.
That was decades ago. Technology's moved on since then, even in that part of the world.
Some technology, yes (most of the actual items in service then are still in service now though).
Organization on the other hand, hard to say, the demographics and training continuity post Soviet Union were not great there.
 

AmosTrask

Well-known member
Those 30 drones in Moscow looked, flew and sounded like Shaheed. Putin is full of shit. Long range Ukrainian drones are a hell of a lot more advanced and faster with larger payloads.

This shit is another false flag! Only a brainwashed Vatnik would believe Putin's bullshit that it was Ukraine.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Those 30 drones in Moscow looked, flew and sounded like Shaheed. Putin is full of shit. Long range Ukrainian drones are a hell of a lot more advanced and faster with larger payloads.

This shit is another false flag! Only a brainwashed Vatnik would believe Putin's bullshit that it was Ukraine.
Info-ops are a thing, and it's not some huge leap to think Ukraine helped either Free Russian forces, or just denying they did it/sanctioned it, like Russia tried so many times in the run up to the invasion.

Bringing the war home to Moscow's residents and making them feel the same nervousness as people in Ukraine when it comes to air raids is part of how they can be made to realize they are complicit in Putin's war and cannot hide from it, nor can their own AA defense protect them nearly as well as they'd like to believe, thus shows the Russian MoD is incompetent to it's own people.

I mean it could be a false flag inside Russia itself, maybe by Wagner to discredit the MoD, however dismissing any talk of it being Ukraine as being something only a 'vatnik' could believe is pushing things way too far.

Ukraine carrying out deniable attacks against Russia on Russian soil, or helping Russian partisans, is nothing to be ashamed of.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
@Bacle Now imagine that the same sort of thing came back the other way, and that Russian missiles started landing and exploding in your home town.
After all, by your logic you are "complicit" in the USA's role in the war. Would this make you less supportive of your government's engagement in it?
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
@Bacle Now imagine that the same sort of thing came back the other way, and that Russian missiles started landing and exploding in your home town.
After all, by your logic you are "complicit" in the USA's role in the war. Would this make you less supportive of your government's engagement in it?
If Russia wants to lob missiles deep into CONUS, and start WW3 because they are not being allowed to conquer Ukraine, and because people like me are supporting arming Ukraine, then so fucking be it. They want to go hard, let's go hard.

Would just be an excuse to actually show why the 2nd Amendment exists to scare foreign powers as well, and why the US has not adopted a 'no first use doctrine' with nukes.

And if the Russian people around Moscow wanted to believe they could live insultated from the war they are supporting Putin undertaking, then they were fools.

Russia is either going to collapse into different new nation-states, or end up a continent sized North Korea, and I've already accepted that fact, and destroying the Russian people's confidence in their own govs ability to protect them is a good way to help weaken the Russian state as whole.

I'm preparing for the post-Russian Federation world, where Moscow is reduced to an effective city state, and a dozen new nations will emerge from the rotting corpse of the Russian Federation.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
If Russia wants to lob missiles deep into CONUS, and start WW3 because they are not being allowed to conquer Ukraine, and because people like me are supporting arming Ukraine, then so fucking be it. They want to go hard, let's go hard.

What would this "go hard" mean for you personally, Mr Chickenhawk?

Would just be an excuse to actually show why the 2nd Amendment exists to scare foreign powers as well, and why the US has not adopted a 'no first use doctrine' with nukes.

Russia's not going to invade CONUS, dude. They just need to sink all those CVBGs, take out Washington DC and some of your centers of industry, and let the rest of the job do itself.

And if the Russian people around Moscow wanted to believe they could live insultated from the war they are supporting Putin undertaking, then they were fools.

Russia is either going to collapse into different new nation-states, or end up a continent sized North Korea, and I've already accepted that fact, and destroying the Russian people's confidence in their own govs ability to protect them is a good way to help weaken the Russian state as whole.

I'm preparing for the post-Russian Federation world, where Moscow is reduced to an effective city state, and a dozen new nations will emerge from the rotting corpse of the Russian Federation.

But are you ready for the post-America world, where Washington DC is reduced to smoking rubble and a dozen new nations will emerge from the rotting corpse of the United States?
Because it's a door that if it opens, will open both ways.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Considering how degraded everything else was we have to consider the possibility that Russias nuclear detergent likewise went to hell.

Thoses missiles had a 30 percent failure rate brand new and now their 30 years older...
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
What would this "go hard" mean for you personally, Mr Chickenhawk?



Russia's not going to invade CONUS, dude. They just need to sink all those CVBGs, take out Washington DC and some of your centers of industry, and let the rest of the job do itself.



But are you ready for the post-America world, where Washington DC is reduced to smoking rubble and a dozen new nations will emerge from the rotting corpse of the United States?
Because it's a door that if it opens, will open both ways.

As bad as things are in the US, we're nowhere near as bad as Russia, and an external attack would be one of the most effective ways to bring back some level of national unity.

Look at what happened after 9/11. Even some lefties were actually flying the flag.

Top that off by wiping DC and the political machine there off the map, and things might actually be better...

Of course, in a real strategic nuclear exchange, DC wouldn't be the only target launched on. Every major Russian city would definitely cease to functionally exist...
 

Megadeath

Well-known member
Russia's not going to invade CONUS, dude. They just need to sink all those CVBGs, take out Washington DC and some of your centers of industry, and let the rest of the job do itself.
Just? Yeah, breaking the military and industrial backbone of the most powerful nation on earth should be a mere trifle for the mighty force that only took a bit over a year and 5 figure KIA numbers to occupy Bakhmut! 🤣
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Just? Yeah, breaking the military and industrial backbone of the most powerful nation on earth should be a mere trifle for the mighty force that only took a bit over a year and 5 figure KIA numbers to occupy Bakhmut! 🤣

As much as I loath giving megadeath any credit he's actually correct on this one.


Ambibious landings and assaults are hard, really hard the last one even remotely close to the scale russia would need to pull off an invasion of america was a mutlinational effort known as D day. I honestly don't think Russia has the sea lift capacity to pull off that kind of invasion.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
Just? Yeah, breaking the military and industrial backbone of the most powerful nation on earth should be a mere trifle for the mighty force that only took a bit over a year and 5 figure KIA numbers to occupy Bakhmut! 🤣
We already shipped the military industrial backbone to china.
Right now the only thing holding up america is that it invades any country that tries to drop the petro dollar.

This allows USA to steal money from the entire world via inflation (while other govts can only steal from their own citizens via inflation).
Which is then used to import foreign manufacturing.

We are in for some really bad times.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
As much as I loath giving megadeath any credit he's actually correct on this one.


Ambibious landings and assaults are hard, really hard the last one even remotely close to the scale russia would need to pull off an invasion of america was a mutlinational effort known as D day. I honestly don't think Russia has the sea lift capacity to pull off that kind of invasion.
Russia would have to be very lucky to get through a carrier strike group or two (out of 11), nevermind do a landing.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
If you want to talk about Russia attacking the US then make another thread for that. This is about Russia-Ukraine and until and unless that conflict actually involves the real (or at least likely) exchange of bullets by Russia and the US then US-Russia military conflict does not belong in this thread.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Sending troublesome young men off to die in a war is an ancient practice, or so I'm told.



Be glad that Putin didn't instead pull a Castro and send all the Russian criminals to the West as "refugees".



That was decades ago. Technology's moved on since then, even in that part of the world.
The tech is actually pretty much the exact same now as it was then
That I can assure you.
@Bacle Now imagine that the same sort of thing came back the other way, and that Russian missiles started landing and exploding in your home town.
After all, by your logic you are "complicit" in the USA's role in the war. Would this make you less supportive of your government's engagement in it?
What would this "go hard" mean for you personally, Mr Chickenhawk?



Russia's not going to invade CONUS, dude. They just need to sink all those CVBGs, take out Washington DC and some of your centers of industry, and let the rest of the job do itself.



But are you ready for the post-America world, where Washington DC is reduced to smoking rubble and a dozen new nations will emerge from the rotting corpse of the United States?
Because it's a door that if it opens, will open both ways.

No, this would boost support and bring out the scariest thing in the world.
A united American people.
There is no other way to bring about the end of one's country then to united the American people.
And we will bring upon the strongest arsenal on the world.
And that is just if we get hit by missiles, let alone nukes or an invasion.

But this isn't the thread for that
Because that would escalate this war to a legit world war.
The closest that has come is the Russian and Ukrainians missiles that have landed in Poland.
That's about it.
So I am with Tippy.


Onto the topic.
I saw on r/NCD that there is a heavy chance the drones came from in Russia not in Ukraine
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Onto the topic.
I saw on r/NCD that there is a heavy chance the drones came from in Russia not in Ukraine
There are good odds the drone attack may have been a Wagner false flag to throw shade on the Russian MoD, though Ukraine could have also done it via the Free Russia groups who have raided across the border.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
The tech is actually pretty much the exact same now as it was then
That I can assure you.



No, this would boost support and bring out the scariest thing in the world.
A united American people.
There is no other way to bring about the end of one's country then to united the American people.
And we will bring upon the strongest arsenal on the world.
And that is just if we get hit by missiles, let alone nukes or an invasion.

But this isn't the thread for that
Because that would escalate this war to a legit world war.
The closest that has come is the Russian and Ukrainians missiles that have landed in Poland.
That's about it.
So I am with Tippy.


Onto the topic.
I saw on r/NCD that there is a heavy chance the drones came from in Russia not in Ukraine

the problem is that wars only unite america for a short period of time, we would infact still have all of the same internal issues only we would exit the war with less material, would lose good people have less money and all of those issues would have festered.

Fact is america has put off dealing with its interanal bullshit to deal with external threats for too long we need to clean up our own house.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
the problem is that wars only unite america for a short period of time, we would infact still have all of the same internal issues only we would exit the war with less material, would lose good people have less money and all of those issues would have festered.

Fact is america has put off dealing with its interanal bullshit to deal with external threats for too long we need to clean up our own house.

These people are all "an attack would unite us all against the enemy" but somehow don't see that same effect would apply to other countries.
 

AmosTrask

Well-known member
What would this "go hard" mean for you personally, Mr Chickenhawk?



Russia's not going to invade CONUS, dude. They just need to sink all those CVBGs, take out Washington DC and some of your centers of industry, and let the rest of the job do itself.



But are you ready for the post-America world, where Washington DC is reduced to smoking rubble and a dozen new nations will emerge from the rotting corpse of the United States?
Because it's a door that if it opens, will open both ways.
You don't know history at all do you? The only thing all Americans can agree on is Vengeance Above All! Pearl Harbor, Tonkin, 9/11. Strike American cities or assets and America will drown you in bombs and megatons of warmachines. With DC gone rule falls to whichever men or women were assigned to the continuity of government bunkers that day and the surviving commanders in the Pentagon.
 
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