Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Lord Sovereign]

Ordinary politiking ...

Do not underestimate Dutch politicking. Their cunning won them an empire, and allowed the bastards to somehow sail up the River fucking Thames to burn and steal the English Navy. God, that was a bad day at the office for us.

 

[Skallagrim]

Do not underestimate Dutch politicking. Their cunning won them an empire, and allowed the bastards to somehow sail up the River fucking Thames to burn and steal the English Navy. God, that was a bad day at the office for us.

Well, you got us back for that one later, didn't you? Repeatedly. Right up to that time where you just didn't give back the Cape Colony and Ceylon because, and I paraphrase, "we'd rather like to keep them, thank you very much".

 

[Buba]

Medway the Thames isn't ...
But I'll check under my bed for cunning Netherlander politicians nonetheless ...

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Well, you got us back for that one later, didn't you? Repeatedly. Right up to that time where you just didn't give back the Cape Colony and Ceylon because, and I paraphrase, "we'd rather like to keep them, thank you very much".

Ah, the days when we could do bullshit like that. In fairness, for beating the crap out of those damned Frenchies and the "Batavian Republic" (gags), it was fair payment.

Then again, perhaps a little too harsh. Everyone forgets Dutch bluecoats helped defeat Napoleon at Waterloo. As I recall, alongside the redcoats you formed the backbone of Wellington's Army that day.

 

[ATP]

Silly theory. Russians fight like that because they can't fight better. Ukraine never had any special significance for Schwab, and for the establishment, only after Russia got involved.
It does however have a lot of special significance for Putin and all the other orphans of Russian/Soviet empire.

Why USA doesn't send more weapons? They have the same bureaucratic and "deescalation" political faction Germany has, except it's weaker and less influential there, but with democrats it still has some say, especially with political pet peeves like weapons that could hit deep inside Russia, and cluster munitions.

I hope that you are right.Becouse i could not belive that anybody,especially from KGB,could be that stupid and still live.

 

[Skallagrim]

Ah, the days when we could do bullshit like that.

There are nations where they forever hold useless grudges and hate each other over every incident that ever happened.

And then there is the Anglo-Dutch way.

"Remember that time we screwed you over? And then that time when you screwed us over? Ah, those were the days!"

 

[Megadeath]

There are nations where they forever hold useless grudges and hate each other over every incident that ever happened.

And then there is the Anglo-Dutch way.

"Remember that time we screwed you over? And then that time when you screwed us over? Ah, those were the days!"

True... Though I do remember hearing about some of the Dutch who were still upset at another nation I won't name, for stealing all their bicycles.

 

[Aldarion]

It's very, very Dutch. To be clear: this is a "draft" that even I woudn't oppose, even though I generally oppose all forms of government coercion. This is so loose, so option-rich, that it might actually be most useful in getting lazy young folks to be useful for a change, rather than this idea having any military application. (I maintain that a draft is crap for that, anyway. You want willing soldiers, if at all possible.)

Would draft be useful to provide some basic training for territorial defense?

 

[Megadeath]

Would draft be useful to provide some basic training for territorial defense?

From what I'm aware of, the consensus opinion is that the military would consider 6-12 months barely useful even for that. Government service like that has advantages and I personally think it's a great thing, but it doesn't really make any kind of meaningful difference to defence or military strength directly.

 

[Skallagrim]

True... Though I do remember hearing about some of the Dutch who were still upset at another nation I won't name, for stealing all their bicycles.

Sure, but that's just a running gag now. It's all been fixed with a Wiedergutmachungsschnitzel.

Would draft be useful to provide some basic training for territorial defense?

Possibly, although I doubt the Dutch version would be very useful. (It could impart some basic skills, but to be really useful, you either need a longer stint than a year, or way more intense training.)

It's not necessary, either, all things being equal otherwise: there's currently a waiting list for the voluntary 'service year' in the national reserve. So, basically... we don't need the draft. If we expand the military so that it can offer a place to all volunteers, that's the issue solved, exactly to the same degree the draft proposal would do it.

 

[AmosTrask]

To my knowledge, it is -- if it indeed did, because I wouldn't know about that one -- since the Dutch government has said no such thing. One Dutch politician said it.

Last week, a Dutch politician also said that we should outlaw petting zoos. Just to give you a frame of reference when it comes to the kind of things Dutch politicians might say, now and then. (And they typically just get ignored.)

It's called a proefballonetje. (Literally: "little testing balloon"). It's something a Dutch politician will "let up" (that is: say) to get attention. All of them do it at least once a month. Most don't make the news. Some make the news, but most of those get ignored within hours. Some actually "hit the mark" and become a talking point. And that is the goal. Because then, the politician who said it gets to go on the evening talk shows, which was the purpose of saying it.

Dutch politics should never be taken seriously. It's just part of the media circus.

Lol. As a Pinoy we have mandatory military training during Secondary and Post Secondary schooling and are part of the active reserve until 50. The only exception is if you leave the country for work or emigration. We have had an active Moslem insurgency for the last 70 years. Your version of a draft would be a vacation in comparison. Those damn Moslem savages like leaving chopped up bodies to intimidate the rest of us. It only enrages us into fighting harder. As I emigrated to the EU fully I didn't have to worry about that. Unfortunately the asshole Russians occupying Moldava and Ukraine are now closer to Romania.

 

[Cherico]

There are nations where they forever hold useless grudges and hate each other over every incident that ever happened.

And then there is the Anglo-Dutch way.

"Remember that time we screwed you over? And then that time when you screwed us over? Ah, those were the days!"

To be fair the foundation of the dutch economy is being at least slightly less dickish then your neighbor's.

 

[AmosTrask]

Here's something worrisome.

 

[Jormungandr]

What happened to the BaiYue, the Bo, the Northern Viet, and many other tribes in what is now China? Those traditional values led to their genocide and the forced genetic assimilation of surviving women with Han men. Traditional Confucian society was, a rigid, strict tyrannical caste system that regimented your day based on your station in society. Everything was policed by Imperial Officials from your clothing, the food you were allowed to buy, to if and when you could have sex with your wife. Farmers growing crops reserved for higher station citizens were forbidden from eating those crops. A myriad of draconian laws that had two outcomes maiming or death. Dependent on your family's station among your caste and the wealth you had available.

Confusion China would only be horrified at CCP China's atheism, lack of traditional finial piety and its mostly uneducated and mostly illiterate upper class. The lack of a Son of Heaven would be the most damning fact against the CCP.

On topic of the war. Here's how far Russia's military production has fallen. An English translation and analysis of a State TV broadcast three days ago.

Centuries ago, Imperial China was one of the most technologically advanced and cultured civilizations on the planet. They were contemporaries of, and in some aspects actually superior to, peer civilizations, such as Rome, Ancient Egypt, and the Islamic World during their Golden Age.

The main issue is that they developed cultural arrogance which has lasted to this day, even though other civilizations have long since surpassed them even before they were sucker-punched by communism. It's even persisted after the Opium Wars showed how laughably far behind they'd become to other world powers, and in fact caused them to double-down on their arrogance.

They still believe themselves to be the top dog when they haven't been anything of the like for at least two thirds of a millenium now.

They have, amusingly and ironically, become the very thieving, arrogant, backward barbarians they saw anyone and everyone else as in centuries past.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

China's misfortune also derives, strangely, from its inexhaustible might and wealth. The Celestial Empire reigned so supreme, so unrivalled, there wasn't really a need to advance or go about colonizing others. The slow rise of Europe, on the other side of the world, was little cause for concern until the 19th century and its ironclad battleships.

By then it was too late.

Indeed, China's example is what made Japan and Thailand frantically modernise. This spared them from a hundred years of humiliation.

 

[Cherico]

China's misfortune also derives, strangely, from its inexhaustible might and wealth. The Celestial Empire reigned so supreme, so unrivalled, there wasn't really a need to advance or go about colonizing others. The slow rise of Europe, on the other side of the world, was little cause for concern until the 19th century and its ironclad battleships.

By then it was too late.

Indeed, China's example is what made Japan and Thailand frantically modernise. This spared them from a hundred years of humiliation.

Its sad what the CCP has done to china, the next regime will remember Mao as the monster he is.

 

[Zyobot]

China's misfortune also derives, strangely, from its inexhaustible might and wealth. The Celestial Empire reigned so supreme, so unrivalled, there wasn't really a need to advance or go about colonizing others. The slow rise of Europe, on the other side of the world, was little cause for concern until the 19th century and its ironclad battleships.

By then it was too late.

Indeed, China's example is what made Japan and Thailand frantically modernise. This spared them from a hundred years of humiliation.

Its sad what the CCP has done to china, the next regime will remember Mao as the monster he is.

Agree the CCP has done irreparable damage and will be met with unkind eyes by future historians. However, unlike you guys, I'm not so sure whatever replaces it will be any better, despite recent hype about the Mandate of Heaven returning with a vengeance.

Writing up a future scenario that elaborates further, if you're interested. But if you ask me, the likelihood the CCP keeps clinging to power and unleashes Tianamen Square 2.0 to crush all opposition makes blowback — and therefore, a regime with even more extreme tendencies — much more likely to arise than an autocratic, but austere and semi-honorable one that learns the right lessons. Think a Chinese version of Ayatollah Khomeini with the genocidal ambitions of Adolf Hitler coming to power and swearing revenge against "British drug merchants", "Euro-Bolshevik heathens", and "American corporations and consumerists" whose debasement of their mighty civilization proved that, if nothing else, leaving the rest of the world to its own devices was a grave mistake. If Communism was cancer that progressed to Stage 4, then Neo-Legalist rule is the hatchet-man that comes in to put them out of their misery straightaway — and probably axe a few more patients while he's at it, sad as I am to say.

 

[AmosTrask]

Agree the CCP has done irreparable damage and will be met with unkind eyes by future historians. However, unlike you guys, I'm not so sure whatever replaces it will be any better, despite recent hype about the Mandate of Heaven returning with a vengeance.

Writing up a future scenario that elaborates further, if you're interested. But if you ask me, the likelihood the CCP keeps clinging to power and unleashes Tianamen Square 2.0 to crush all opposition makes blowback — and therefore, a regime with even more extreme tendencies — much more likely to arise than an autocratic, but austere and semi-honorable one that learns the right lessons. Think a Chinese version of Ayatollah Khomeini with the genocidal ambitions of Adolf Hitler coming to power and swearing revenge against "British drug merchants", "Euro-Bolshevik heathens", and "American corporations and consumerists" whose debasement of their mighty civilization proved that, if nothing else, leaving the rest of the world to its own devices was a grave mistake. If Communism was cancer that progressed to Stage 4, then Neo-Legalist rule is the hatchet-man that comes in to put them out of their misery straightaway — and probably axe a few more patients while he's at it, sad as I am to say.

Exactly. China will always be an expansionist, genocidal power under any regime. Its baked into their culture. I am biased though. The only Chinese that came to us in peace were fleeing from the Empire's tyranny and Mongols traders The rest of the time it was invasion after invasion and just like our Dai Viet cousins we had to fight them in unending guerrilla warfare.

We celebrated when we burned the Eastern Song. They fled to the Philippine islands when the Mongols conquered the Song Dynasty. Then proceeded to slaughter and enslave the lowland tribes in Luzon and the Visayas and warring with the Davao and Sulu Sultanates. They killed our shamans when we sent them as diplomats. Demanding our submission to the Dragon Throne. We fought them for almost 100 years before a succession crisis triggered a civil war we took advantage of. To hell with Mainlander Chinese

 

[AmosTrask]

The only good traditional Chinese are in Taiwan and only because they stopped trying to exterminate our Formosan cousins and have granted them equal citizenship.

 

[King Arts]

The only good traditional Chinese are in Taiwan and only because they stopped trying to exterminate our Formosan cousins and have granted them equal citizenship.

Ok now I get it you are so anti Chinese because of ethnic historical reasons. Just like Poles and Russians.