Middle East Running Iranian threat news and discussion thread

King Arts

Well-known member
So far i would say friendly. A large part of it is common orientation in regional web of relationships - India is naturally doomed to be disliked by the general islamic world's masses due to their local conflict with Sunni islamist Pakistan... So no loss for them to be buddies with Israel who is hated by the same people for their own regional conflict with roughly the same faction.
Of course they can be friendly and even work together when their interests align and fighting common foes like Islamists. But they aren’t allies like America is to Israel or Britain where they will support them through thick and thin and give them free gifts and support all the time. Hell if the Greeks were still pagans they would of course be willing to work with Israel to keep Islam in check and from expanding. They can be friendly and help each other out occasionally but an alliance is something deeper.
 

Marduk

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Of course they can be friendly and even work together when their interests align and fighting common foes like Islamists. But they aren’t allies like America is to Israel or Britain where they will support them through thick and thin and give them free gifts and support all the time. Hell if the Greeks were still pagans they would of course be willing to work with Israel to keep Islam in check and from expanding. They can be friendly and help each other out occasionally but an alliance is something deeper.
There is some additional commonality there. Cultural one. With Britain and America its pretty obvious, but there is also a reason why Israel is considered a western country, and even gets into some European cultural events even though Europe has far colder attitude towards it than USA.
And then there's a separate and wider issue as shown around the controversies with certain NATO members not exactly contributing as much to NATO power as their size and economy would imply. Namely, America is perhaps a bit too generous, and in particular unconditionally generous with its allies, to a point where it drives these allies to such a feeling of safety and guaranteed defense by another that they cut back on own efforts in the area and in consequence become weaker, less useful allies. Due to its particular geopolitical situation this extreme problem doesn't seem to affect Israel, but it does hit quite a few countries.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Nope. The whole collapse of French and English empires prove you completely wrong about that. Dozens upon dozens of strength worshiping peoples (including the Middle Eastern ones) went back to their own way of life as soon as their occupiers weakened.
Where are all the British and French patriots in Asia and Africa?
And that's despite the occupiers being civilizationally more developed than them, with all the comforts, riches and awe it brings.

Of course even then surviving 123 years of occupation is only a moderately desirable fate.
Its not the worst option, but also not something the world would be jealous of.
You know what would be better?
Never being occupied in the first place.

1945, that explains something. Of course they went back to Germany, they were never completely separate from that.

No, see history. What did very Christian Spain do with its Muslims? What few technically Christian kings remain in Europe are generally no better than democratic governments, and sometimes worse.


I have a bit wider view of history. That's an obviously silly argument because it requires you to completely ignore the importance and power of pagan built Greco-Roman world. Without it, there would be no Christian Europe, and if by some miracle without Rome a religious sect from Palestine somehow spread around Europe anyway, it would not be important without the heritage of those pagans.


For similar reasons as Rome died despite freshly converting to Christianity. Elites too comfortable, self-confident, busy with their little hot but unimportant social games and insufficiently interested in the real but hard to solve problems heading for them.
Last time kicked out of their comfy seats by strength worshipping warlords who set up their warrior-king states that eventually became the golden age of Christian kingdoms.


Christian world obviously didn't begin strong, you can leave out that selective narrative. It grew out of ruins of Rome and building on its heritage.
Then again, Rome itself also didn't start strong.
No civilization did.
No civilization ever did get strong though by not being willing to put own interests above those of their enemies. That is, very obviously, a recipe for disaster. The Christian kingdoms you idolize would not cry over the comforts and rights of Palestinians. They would worry about Mohammedans plotting to control the Holy Land. That's what makes the difference between western civilization now and western civilization in whatever of its golden ages, Christian or Greco-Roman.

About Iranians - they have the same right like Izrael,or both sides have no rights at all.
Now,your post:

1.Nope - tribes who was strong take power after WW2,not those who was conqered - for example,Ashanti do not get their empire back.And colonials do not prosecuted local cultures.When Poland survived after 123 years of being persecuted for taking polish on polish land.

2.Prussians were one of german nations.Bavarians are still there,prussians are not.Why? they worshipped strenght,when strenght vanished they vanished,too.
Strong nation is that which survive occupation,not that which occupy others.

3.Spain gave them 6 months for sell their goods and go back to Africa.You mistaken being Christian with being stupid - and letting invaders remain would be stupidity.And muslims were invaders there.Jews were removed,becouse they were 5th column,not becouse religion.
Kings now are just puppets,so it is not important.Somebody is making decisions for them.

4.Church made our cyvilisation from Greek/Aristotle/ philosophy,roman law and christian morality,when both greek and roman cyvilisations were dead.Our cyvilisation is still alive,their - not.
Of course,if we die Church would not die with us,it would mix our morality with other cyvilisations,it worked for Africa,Vietnam,China and Japan once.

5.And Europe start ruling world only after those warlords becomed christians.And start using christian standarts,for example not enslaving enemies.

6.Those christian kingdoms would retake Holy Land from all pagans,including jews.And you do not undarstand what Chrystianity mean.It is not surrender to enemies,it is fight and win - but in the name of Jesus,and do not enslaving enemies after victory or stealing what was theirs.Only killing those who deserwed it and retaking our property.
How do you think we win Lepanto and Vienna? yes,popes prayed,but soldiers fought.And win.

It is better even if God do not exist - becouse strenght worshippers would cease to exist after series of defeat,we do not.
And Science is possible only when you agree that Truth exist - if you worshipp strenght,in long turn your science would cease to exist.Just like leftist science now.

Of course,you could not enslave others or steal what is theirs - but...it is really so hard ?
 
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Marduk

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1.Nope - tribes who was strong take power after WW2,not those who was conqered - for example,Ashanti do not get their empire back.And colonials do not prosecuted local cultures.When Poland survived after 123 years of being persecuted for taking polish on polish land.
Even the British did when they had a good reason.

The others, well...
See: Anything by Belgium, French problems in Vietnam.
2.Prussians were one of german nations.Bavarians are still there,prussians are not.Why? they worshipped strenght,when strenght vanished they vanished,too.
Strong nation is that which survive occupation,not that which occupy others.
No, that was a direct result of Germany starting a war and losing, so the victors naturally shifted the borders in their favor. Of all people Prussians didn't oppose that war. Protip, don't start and lose wars.
3.Spain gave them 6 months for sell their goods and go back to Africa.You mistaken being Christian with being stupid - and letting invaders remain would be stupidity.And muslims were invaders there.Jews were removed,becouse they were 5th column,not becouse religion.
Kings now are just puppets,so it is not important.Somebody is making decisions for them.
Excellent. Now apply that lesson to Israel's position.
4.Church made our cyvilisation from Greek/Aristotle/ philosophy,roman law and christian morality,when both greek and roman cyvilisations were dead.Our cyvilisation is still alive,their - not.
Church as an organization was made by Rome really.
Their civilization was too alive in its time.
Our civilization is also not in a great shape anymore, just like Roman one when it organized the Catholic Church.

Of course,if we die Church would not die with us,it would mix our morality with other cyvilisations,it worked for Africa,Vietnam,China and Japan once.
To varying degrees. Probably skewing low, if the Church is failing at its job even in its own home continent...

5.And Europe start ruling world only after those warlords becomed christians.
Rome ruled its known piece of world before too.
Sometimes pillaging, killing and driving them out though.

And start using christian standarts,for example not enslaving enemies.

6.Those christian kingdoms would retake Holy Land from all pagans,including jews.And you do not undarstand what Chrystianity mean.It is not surrender to enemies,it is fight and win - but in the name of Jesus,and do not enslaving enemies after victory or stealing what was theirs.Only killing those who deserwed it and retaking our property.
How do you think we win Lepanto and Vienna? yes,popes prayed,but soldiers fought.And win.
Well then, now when we have established that, why do you expect Jews of all people to be this stupid, in the name of some unspecified kind of law and morality, that not only isn't theirs, but also apparently isn't opposed to winning and retaking long lost property?

It is better even if God do not exist - becouse strenght worshippers would cease to exist after series of defeat,we do not.
Well then, why does Islam still exist. It got beaten to crap by British Empire mostly, and didn't get up much since then. Yet it still exists and is starting to be kinda annoying to the western powers again.

And Science is possible only when you agree that Truth exist - if you worshipp strenght,in long turn your science would cease to exist.Just like leftist science now.
If the leftist science ceases to exist, its because it is not science, it is propaganda calling itself science. Just like Lysenkoism. It is of no use to anyone who doesn't need this particular brand of propaganda.

Of course,you could not enslave others or steal what is theirs - but...it is really so hard ?
The Jews don't want to enslave the Arabs, on the contrary, they would prefer the Arabs to fuck off as far as physically possible, and consider places like Jerusalem, Jericho or Samaria very much their places.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Even the British did when they had a good reason.

The others, well...
See: Anything by Belgium, French problems in Vietnam.

No, that was a direct result of Germany starting a war and losing, so the victors naturally shifted the borders in their favor. Of all people Prussians didn't oppose that war. Protip, don't start and lose wars.

Excellent. Now apply that lesson to Israel's position.

Church as an organization was made by Rome really.
Their civilization was too alive in its time.
Our civilization is also not in a great shape anymore, just like Roman one when it organized the Catholic Church.


To varying degrees. Probably skewing low, if the Church is failing at its job even in its own home continent...


Rome ruled its known piece of world before too.
Sometimes pillaging, killing and driving them out though.




Well then, now when we have established that, why do you expect Jews of all people to be this stupid, in the name of some unspecified kind of law and morality, that not only isn't theirs, but also apparently isn't opposed to winning and retaking long lost property?


Well then, why does Islam still exist. It got beaten to crap by British Empire mostly, and didn't get up much since then. Yet it still exists and is starting to be kinda annoying to the western powers again.


If the leftist science ceases to exist, its because it is not science, it is propaganda calling itself science. Just like Lysenkoism. It is of no use to anyone who doesn't need this particular brand of propaganda.


The Jews don't want to enslave the Arabs, on the contrary, they would prefer the Arabs to fuck off as far as physically possible, and consider places like Jerusalem, Jericho or Samaria very much their places.


1.Poland lost war in 1794,ceased to exist ,now - polish nation and state exist.Prussian lost war and state,and there is no more of them.Why ? becouse they worshipped strenght,and without conqering others could not exist.And nation which need conqering others to exist is weak.
2.Israel take land from palestinians who lived there from bronze age,so real jews should share it .Those from russia are chazars anyway,so they have no any rights,even 1900 year old there.
3..Jesus organized catholic Church,and choosen first pope.Who was killed by Rome.
4 We are Church,we would survive.Jesus promised surviving of Church,not surviving of Europe.Or white - or any other - race.
5.Rome do not ruled world,or even Europe.Christian Europe - yes.
6.You asked about what christian kings would do.I answered.Becouse you belived,nobody knew why,that christians should
support one pagans against others in Holy Land.Christians would either do nothing or remove both.
7.Becouse christian are not fighting.If weak dude start beating somebody who do not fight back,he win.And islam till 1914 were falling.
8.You could not belive in Truth in science and deny Truth in politic - not for long time.Leftist do not use normal science anymore,becouse they negated Truth.If you want to see what worshipping strenght did to science,look at SS inventions.
In long run all states which deny truth lost science,too.
9.Well,jews still stealed that land.But they could keep what they buyed.

All in all - being christian do not mean being weak or naive,but fighting,winning - but not stealing other people property .
And Iran had as much rights as Israel.That is all,their war do not concern me,and should not concern anybody here but iranians and jews.Leave it to them.
 

Marduk

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Moderator
Staff Member
And this is why I support Palestine, Iran and the general Resistance Axis.
So you support Islamist countries that want to remove Jew's state in Jew's homeland, because... they not only want to live in their historical homeland but also rule it, rather than have people who hate them rule it?
 

History Learner

Well-known member
I personally saw footage, something like 20 years ago, of Palestinian children, and I men like six, maybe eight years old, speaking passionately about how they would be suicide bombers to kill jews.

I saw video footage in the last two years of Jewish children talking about genociding the Palestinians and taking the land. Your point?
 

Marduk

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1.Poland lost war in 1794,ceased to exist ,now - polish nation and state exist.Prussian lost war and state,and there is no more of them.Why ? becouse they worshipped strenght,and without conqering others could not exist.And nation which need conqering others to exist is weak.
No, because they messed with another state that worships strength, had more of it, and they lost, so the other state took a pencil to the map, as it often happens in such cases.
2.Israel take land from palestinians who lived there from bronze age,so real jews should share it .Those from russia are chazars anyway,so they have no any rights,even 1900 year old there.
So where do they have rights to a homeland? Oh, right, nowhere.

Obviously there's no way they can share with Islamists, if they try only one of them can walk out of it alive and there are more Islamists.
3..Jesus organized catholic Church,and choosen first pope.Who was killed by Rome.
And until Rome adopted it as official religion and made it a large organization with a consistent doctrine... obviously it wasn't running a civilization.
4 We are Church,we would survive.Jesus promised surviving of Church,not surviving of Europe.Or white - or any other - race.
Well then, in that case its our job.
5.Rome do not ruled world,or even Europe.Christian Europe - yes.
Christian Europe was not a country, certainly not when it could claim to rule the world. It was already divided in churches and empires. Rome was a singular polity on the contrary.
6.You asked about what christian kings would do.I answered.Becouse you belived,nobody knew why,that christians should
support one pagans against others in Holy Land.Christians would either do nothing or remove both.
Probably, if you don't dig into the details. The fact is that the Jews are westernized and diplomatically somewhat cooperative, contrary to the alternatives.
7.Becouse christian are not fighting.If weak dude start beating somebody who do not fight back,he win.
Exactly. Whose job is it to inspire a will to fight.
And islam till 1914 were falling.
Not for lack of trying. More for lack of proverbial Maxim guns.
8.You could not belive in Truth in science and deny Truth in politic - not for long time.Leftist do not use normal science anymore,becouse they negated Truth.If you want to see what worshipping strenght did to science,look at SS inventions.
In long run all states which deny truth lost science,too.
SS was just like the leftists. Couldn't care less for science, they also had to get ideologically correct results. Just the ideology was different.
9.Well,jews still stealed that land.But they could keep what they buyed.
No they couldn't. Sovereignty vs ownership yet again. Jews owned a lot of land all around Middle East, no one cared, they had to leave it for their own good when all the countries there got pissed about Israel winning wars. If the sovereign won't protect you on the land you own by property law, it doesn't matter you have a paper that says you own it. And even then the sovereign can just pass a law saying you don't own it (see: our little mess with commie government's handling of real estate).
They had to claim their own sovereignty to be able to use what they bought, and that meant a state.
They run a state better than any Islamic country in the region, so why not.
All in all - being christian do not mean being weak or naive,but fighting,winning - but not stealing other people property .
When states do it its called conquest. Its how Jews stopped owning that land in the first place too. Lost by the sword , taken by sword, how can you protest?
Ownership is not a game of king of the hill, and if it was, its not you who pick a period of time after stolen property becomes legitimate and the owner can't take it back.
And Iran had as much rights as Israel.That is all,their war do not concern me,and should not concern anybody here but iranians and jews.Leave it to them.
That's a silly take, you may aswell say that there should be no military alliances and politics at all then, after all wars only concern 2 countries.
 
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The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I’m not a Zionist, so no.
Wow, your definitions are screwed up.

The Palestinian "state" formed with the idea of destroying Israel. Iran preaches the pushing of all Israelis into the ocean and death. So the only state sponsored genocide going on is by the states and parties you support. Sooooo...you do support genocide. Good to know.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
I saw video footage in the last two years of Jewish children talking about genociding the Palestinians and taking the land. Your point?
First off, I kind of doubt that. Second off, there's a world of difference between kids saying something horrible like 'we should kill these people,' and delivering basically a sermon on 'I will die to kill these people.' Both are bad, one is far worse.

Also, the key difference is that it is official policy of Hamas, and their actions fit that.

It is not official policy of the government of Israel.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
First off, I kind of doubt that. Second off, there's a world of difference between kids saying something horrible like 'we should kill these people,' and delivering basically a sermon on 'I will die to kill these people.' Both are bad, one is far worse.

I felt the same about your original claim, but specific to this point there is no moral difference; both are children on differing sides of the conflict discussing their desire to kill the other. In the case of the Israelis, it was via bombing and in your stated example of the Palestinians, it was suicide bombing.

Also, the key difference is that it is official policy of Hamas, and their actions fit that.

You're woefully misinformed if that is your actual belief, which even Israeli sources concede isn't true.

It is not official policy of the government of Israel.

Would come as a hell of a shock to the civilians the Israelis willfully murdered in 2006 or their war crimes in 2009 where they used chemical weapons on civilian populations. There's also the fact what you are claiming doesn't match the stated reality of the Israeli public:

Nearly half of Jewish Israelis agree that Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel, and a solid majority (79 percent) maintain that Jews in Israel should be given preferential treatment, according to a Pew Research Center in Israel survey published on Tuesday.

The poll, with 5,601 in-person interviews of Israeli adults, conducted between October 2014 and May 2015, found that Israeli Jews increasingly believe the West Bank settlements help, rather than hurt, Israel’s security – and most (61%) believe Israel was given by God to the Jewish people.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
I felt the same about your original claim, but specific to this point there is no moral difference; both are children on differing sides of the conflict discussing their desire to kill the other. In the case of the Israelis, it was via bombing and in your stated example of the Palestinians, it was suicide bombing.

I couldn't find the old video, but here's something showing the attitude behind such things.
You're woefully misinformed if that is your actual belief, which even Israeli sources concede isn't true.
That's nice, if true. What actually happened the last time Israel offered the Palestinians literally everything they wanted though, was the beginning of the Second Intifada.

When Hamas stops making rocket attacks into civilian-inhabited Israel, I'll believe it.

You seriously cannot understand the difference between 'We want them out' and 'We want them all killed'?

Also, the link on the attack on the beach itself describes a situation of collateral damage, not 'Oh hey, there's a bunch of civilians, let's shell them.' Civilians dying in collateral damage is a bad thing. Targeting civilians deliberately is literally the difference between manslaughter and murder.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
That's a silly take, you may aswell say that there should be no military alliances and politics at all then, after all wars only concern 2 countries.
This is a silly take. An alliance requires both sides to either be similar and the best of friends through history or more likely the nations share strategic interests and work together against others to benefit both of them. Why should historically Christian nations get involved in a fight between Muslims and Jews Poland won’t really be affected if one conquers the other. In the current circumstances all a Christian should care about is that whoever controls the holy land allows pilgrims in.
 

Marduk

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This is a silly take. An alliance requires both sides to either be similar and the best of friends through history or more likely the nations share strategic interests and work together against others to benefit both of them. Why should historically Christian nations get involved in a fight between Muslims and Jews Poland won’t really be affected if one conquers the other. In the current circumstances all a Christian should care about is that whoever controls the holy land allows pilgrims in.
Of course for Poland specifically its an indirect relationship at best, due to geography alone if nothing else. The alliance here is US world hegemon to Israel and US world hegemon to Poland.
 

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