Religion Religion, Atheism and Relation to Basis of Morality

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
there is a reason why I prefer honest vice to dishonest virtue.

Honest Greed can be channeled into good purposes, dishonest virtue has ways of becoming much more toxic.

Unfortunately, I don't think anybody'd take someone just outright saying "I like getting money and being successful" as a motivation
 

Lanmandragon

Well-known member
Unfortunately, I don't think anybody'd take someone just outright saying "I like getting money and being successful" as a motivation
Why? I find your assumption dead wrong based on personal experience. Sure commies think that but why care what that scum thinks? Beyond understanding them enough to take them down.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Why? I find your assumption dead wrong based on personal experience. Sure commies think that but why care what that scum thinks? Beyond understanding them enough to take them down.

Sure there maybe no actual consequences, but they'd still be afraid of whatever imaginable consequences there could be
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Being an Atheist is a scary moral prospect, as it inherently doesn't come with a belief system/morality attached to it. You need to form your own on top of it (This is why Atheism Plus, or any attempt to assign to atheism a unifying belief beyond disbelief in god won't really work). Personally, I'm fond of utilitarianism of maximizing human's negative rights (as opposed to pleasure, the usual end goal of utilitarianism), but I haven't looked extensively into the foundations of my beliefs.
 
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CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Being an Atheist is a scary moral prospect, as it inherently doesn't come with a belief system/morality attached to it. You need to form your own on top of it (This is why Atheism Plus, or any attempt to assign to atheism a unifying belief beyond disbelief in god won't really work). Personally, I'm fond of utilitarianism of maximizing human's negative rights (as opposed to pleasure, the usual end goal of utilitarianism), but I haven't looked extensively into the foundations of my beliefs.

What about Objectivism by Ayn Rand?
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
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Osaul
What about Objectivism by Ayn Rand?
Objectivism has flaws. For example, and as mentioned before in this thread, modern game theory shows that charity can be inbyour own best interest. Second, Objectism has other beliefs that I have issue with, such as abortion being legal. Third, it has a number of positions I'm not familiar with, as I don't really want to read Atlas Shrugged.

One crucial thing my personal philosophy lacks is a way to get to individual rights being good and inherent to humanity.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Objectivism has flaws. For example, and as mentioned before in this thread, modern game theory shows that charity can be inbyour own best interest. Second, Objectism has other beliefs that I have issue with, such as abortion being legal. Third, it has a number of positions I'm not familiar with, as I don't really want to read Atlas Shrugged.

One crucial thing my personal philosophy lacks is a way to get to individual rights being good and inherent to humanity.

Well then, what about taking what you think is good and mixing it with things like this modern game theory thing

Charity in itself can also be a “selfish” act
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
Being an Atheist is a scary moral prospect, as it inherently doesn't come with a belief system/morality attached to it. You need to form your own on top of it (This is why Atheism Plus, or any attempt to assign to atheism a unifying belief beyond disbelief in god won't really work). Personally, I'm fond of utilitarianism of maximizing human's negative rights (as opposed to pleasure, the usual end goal of utilitarianism), but I haven't looked extensively into the foundations of my beliefs.
People love to attack utilitarianism, but I find it one of the most important approaches to moral philosophy. One so powerful in fact that even people who attack utilitarianism use appeals to utilitarianism to do so.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
People love to attack utilitarianism, but I find it one of the most important approaches to moral philosophy. One so powerful in fact that even people who attack utilitarianism use appeals to utilitarianism to do so.
I think the greatest value of utilitarianism is not as a source of moral knowledge, but a framework for how you can manipulate people whom are fundamentally evil to behave in a manor that resembles good. Most importantly, that it can be done without resorting to violence.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
I think the greatest value of utilitarianism is not as a source of moral knowledge, but a framework for how you can manipulate people whom are fundamentally evil to behave in a manor that resembles good. Most importantly, that it can be done without resorting to violence.

Does it take into account for the people who have the worst combination of evil, dumb and perhaps with little self control?
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
Well, everybody is a utilitarian to some degree. Almost everybody thinks that their own moral code, if practiced relatively strictly, will lead to a world with greater happiness and less suffering. The disconnect is in thinking that their moral code is good for more abstract reason that transcends practical analysis of the suffering it alleviates or the happiness it causes.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Well, everybody is a utilitarian to some degree. Almost everybody thinks that their own moral code, if practiced relatively strictly, will lead to a world with greater happiness and less suffering. The disconnect is in thinking that their moral code is good for more abstract reason that transcends practical analysis of the suffering it alleviates or the happiness it causes.

After awhile, if people have self awareness to realize that, they may still have doubts regarding them thinking whether or not 2+2=4 or 5

The “solution” would be them killing their own sense of reason and betraying their own values and becoming an “altruist”

Who will follow whatever cult leader or group(think)says and be fine deluding himself from then on

They now have their own New Gods to be fanatics to

You can be a zealot without believing in a divine being/s.....by treating someone almost like one or whatever group as near-divine
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Or an ideology. That's how we got these nutjob Atheism+ moonbats running around.

An ideology that's got its followers grouped together

The moment they unite or form an association or organization, is for me when they can start going crazy and possibly corrupt

Think McCarthyism, for them becoming hypocrites who suppress freedom of speech and expression is something they would do even if its a betrayal of many principles and a show of oppressive power
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
An ideology that's got its followers grouped together

The moment they unite or form an association or organization, is for me when they can start going crazy and possibly corrupt

Think McCarthyism, for them becoming hypocrites who suppress freedom of speech and expression is something they would do even if its a betrayal of many principles and a show of oppressive power

As a note, 'McCarthyism' isn't what a lot of people made it out to be.
 

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