Protecting And Serving: Cop (mis)behavior and consequences general discussion

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
The projection is strong in this one.

Quite.

Would still like to see what the courts have to say about it, but if true, it certainly makes me wonder what other things he, his buddies, and his Deep State superiors have also been projecting about. Surely, collusion with Russia can’t be the only one. :unsure:
 

Wilykit

Well-known member
Years ago my husband ( retired police officer) said this was going to happen. Politicians pushing "Tough on crime." How are you tough on crime? Well you hire more cops. Too bad the good ones with educations ( my brother and my daughter) don't want to work in a low paying shitty corrupt big city departments. So who do they hire? Any warm body with a high school diploma and maybe (if you're lucky) an associate degree. Departments need to raise their standards and just have to deal with the fact that in order to get good officers they are going to have to pay more or have fewer officers.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
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Years ago my husband ( retired police officer) said this was going to happen. Politicians pushing "Tough on crime." How are you tough on crime? Well you hire more cops. Too bad the good ones with educations ( my brother and my daughter) don't want to work in a low paying shitty corrupt big city departments. So who do they hire? Any warm body with a high school diploma and maybe (if you're lucky) an associate degree. Departments need to raise their standards and just have to deal with the fact that in order to get good officers they are going to have to pay more or have fewer officers.
But Big City Mayors and Council Members can't pay more. They have to skim their kickbacks and fund that Golf Trip to a Ritzy Country Club with their upper crust friend.
 

Wilykit

Well-known member
But Big City Mayors and Council Members can't pay more. They have to skim their kickbacks and fund that Golf Trip to a Ritzy Country Club with their upper crust friend.
This is why part of me doesn't care that (mainly) large cities have crap PDs. They vote for crap politicians then those crap politicians allow crap PDs. All these problems with police departments at the end of day were caused by lazy corrupt politicians. The same ones that then turn around and blame the( solely )officers THAT THEY HIRED for problems caused by their policies.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
This is why part of me doesn't care that (mainly) large cities have crap PDs. They vote for crap politicians then those crap politicians allow crap PDs. All these problems with police departments at the end of day were caused by lazy corrupt politicians. The same ones that then turn around and blame the( solely )officers THAT THEY HIRED for problems caused by their policies.

My uncle recently retired as a Minnesota State Trooper. According to him, the Minneapolis PD has a looong reputation as being rough during arrests.

Who's been running the twin cities for the last 50+ years?

Democrats.

Why do these people keep voting for the politicians that cause so many of the problems they want politicians to solve for them?
 

Seras

Well-known member
My uncle recently retired as a Minnesota State Trooper. According to him, the Minneapolis PD has a looong reputation as being rough during arrests.

Who's been running the twin cities for the last 50+ years?

Democrats.

Why do these people keep voting for the politicians that cause so many of the problems they want politicians to solve for them?
Because cause and effect is something most people don't understand. Especially if the news, and media in general obfuscates the cause AND effect.

They are told police are bad, and that it's all those evil Conservative gun nuts, because all the police are evil racist white people who just want to beat on black people.

That's why we had the defund police movement. Then every city that tried it swiftly backtracked it when they realized how stupid it was, but the lefty politicians still approved it for a bit because they are disconnected from a normal persons perspective.

But people don't understand the cause. It was never 'Cops are bad.' It was 'Not enough cops. Too many DA's letting criminals walk and commit forty felonys before they finally end up in jail. Lack of pay into police, means less and less training.'

Now don't get me wrong. There are bad cops out there. The Audit movement that has been picking up over the last couple years has proven that fairly well. But there are ways to get around that. The problem is that thanks to the internet we see every bad cop. Every bad interaction. Hell sometimes we see good interactions shown in negative light thanks to deceptive editing, or media pundits telling us what we are seeing is wrong, despite the cops doing exactly what they are supposed to.

But yeah, normal people don't look into this enough, don't look into politics. I didn't until I hit my mid twenties, I didn't care. I didn't think knowing would make any difference, and to be honest, it only has in the most barest of senses. I mean, I did at least know not to get the Vax, but I was wouldn't have gotten it even before I became more politically aware.

So people are being lied to, and they aren't interested enough to verify. So they consume lies, which gives them all faulty cause and effect.

When everyone tells them "It's all Republicans fault, vote Democrat and we will fix it. Too many will listen, not realizing they are voting democrat in a city that has been democrat controlled for 60+ years. Never realizing the trick. Never willing to look around and realize the scam.

The next problem is that in a lot of those places, once the demos take over. You don't usually see a Republican resurgence. I can't think of a single big city that basically went demo controlled for decades, and then flipped Republican. I would love to see one that actually fixes the problems, but I'm not sure that ever happened.
 

Abhorsen

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Because cause and effect is something most people don't understand. Especially if the news, and media in general obfuscates the cause AND effect.

They are told police are bad, and that it's all those evil Conservative gun nuts, because all the police are evil racist white people who just want to beat on black people.
The police are bad. Or more accurately, there are a shitton of institutional problems with cops. This thread highlights them.

But people don't understand the cause. It was never 'Cops are bad.' It was 'Not enough cops. Too many DA's letting criminals walk and commit forty felonys before they finally end up in jail. Lack of pay into police, means less and less training.'
No. These are seperate problems that you are conflating. Bad cops (I include any cop who 'just obeyed orders' when shutting down a bar for covid, for example) are bad. Crime is bad. A lot of cops stops non-cop crime, but also just letting cops do what they want enables cop abuse (also crime).

Now don't get me wrong. There are bad cops out there. The Audit movement that has been picking up over the last couple years has proven that fairly well. But there are ways to get around that. The problem is that thanks to the internet we see every bad cop. Every bad interaction. Hell sometimes we see good interactions shown in negative light thanks to deceptive editing, or media pundits telling us what we are seeing is wrong, despite the cops doing exactly what they are supposed to.
It's not a few bad cops. There are institutional problems.

Let's just start with a lack of liability or skin in the game. If a cop violates rights, there's almost no chance of anything happening to them. First, the thin blue line of silence needs to be gotten through to even know about it and get evidence of it (including stuff like abusing crime victim's rights acts to keep their name out of the public). Now once a bad cop did something bad and got caught for it, there are 3 avenues of justice, all of which must be pursued, but none of them are in 99% of cases.

First, they need to fire the cop to stop future harm. But this immediately runs into problems. In most cities especially, the cops are unionized, and public sector unions lobby for contracts and law changes that protect themselves. In fact, the things that cops are going to be fired for are for are usually when they do good, like reveal that stuff is corrupt or wrong (search this thread for the Maine detective who was fired for revealing massive government overreach in searches). Or maybe an example from my hometown of Huntsville, where the city is willingly (not even forced by contract!) paying a cop convicted of murder.

Second, you get a civil case, to get the victim of the cop abuse restitution. Only Judicial Activism invented qualified immunity, which effectively means that it's not a crime the first time, civilly speaking. So long as the cops do something ever so slightly new and awful, they are not liable. There are plenty of examples of that in this thread as well.

Third and finally a prosecutor has to charge the cop to fulfill retributive justice. This almost never happens, because DA's and cops are on the same side. On top of this, Juries give them wide leeway, their defense is usually paid by the city, etc.

So no, the cops are institutionally bad, because there is no pressure on them to do good. None at all. The only pressure they face from their institution is to enforce laws (including bad ones) and meet ticket quotas.


But I'm not even done! We haven't even gotten into the legal bullshit they pull, including: SWAT raids for weed, civil asset forfeiture, shutting down businesses defying covid orders, stopping people from paddleboarding without a mask, taking your guns, etc. Because cops will obey orders, as they've shown time and time again.
 
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Captain X

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Osaul
The stuff Swat raids take care of are supposed to be taken care of by the militia, the effort needed to get the state militia deployed acted as a check against excessive usage. Instead we now have calling swat team on people being used as an instrument of murder.
Part of the deal with SWAT teams is the continual need to justify their own existence. The reason the public got sold on them is for riots and difficult hostage situations like what took place in the '70s when all this stuff came into being, but even then, that kind of stuff wasn't exactly happening all the time. Simultaneously, the Fed got it in their head that they had to "git tuff" on crime, but the only crimes they had the power to do that with were the drug crimes. Thus, the "War on Drugs" to justify spending all kinds of money to make it look like they're doing something, and part of that goes to these SWAT teams, who then go on to mostly do drug raids and the like.

Honestly something that has to be done is that our country has to go back to respecting Castle Doctrine.
 

Abhorsen

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"Oooh, the cops aren't the problem, we need more of them, It's the democrats."

Meanwhile cops faithfully obeying the democrats, not the constitution:

Cops are not allies of freedom or goodness. They are just enemies of lawlessness. To some extant, that's useful, but it doesn't make them good. They, as a group, will enforce any law, no matter how clearly wrong, illegal, immoral or unethical it is (unless that law constrains cops, in which case nevermind!).
 
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bintananth

behind a desk

Shelby County District Attorney Steve Mulroy's press conference just ended. The talking heads are discussing it on TV at the moment.

These cops might actually get punished.
 

Abhorsen

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More Law Enforcement being the problem:

Yeah, you served your time, but what if we just don't let you go?

Reasoning? Oh, what if they go onto commit more crimes (minority reporting them basically)? Or more relevant: prison labor.

This mystical idea that somehow more cops solve problems, when cops are a problem, is laughable. Yes, there's crime. But focusing just on non-cop crime means ignoring the crimes of the state, which are just as real.
 
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Doomsought

Well-known member
I have always hated the cops tbh, Like I understand they serve a purpose and need to exist so I wouldn't "defund" them but at the same time I know they are little more than thugs of the system.
They are fundamentally a tool of violence. Here's the thing: there are some things that justify the use of violence; however progressive politics demands expanding the law into things where violence is not justified. Because these laws can only exist so long as they are enforce- that is police violence is used on the behalf of these laws- the creation of these laws inherently leads to unjust violence.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
They are fundamentally a tool of violence. Here's the thing: there are some things that justify the use of violence; however progressive politics demands expanding the law into things where violence is not justified. Because these laws can only exist so long as they are enforce- that is police violence is used on the behalf of these laws- the creation of these laws inherently leads to unjust violence.


Well also a bunch of retarded idiots become cops, For instance a dude I went to school with is like a sheriff now and he was one of the dumbest mother fuckers I have ever known to the point that he literally struggled with basic multiplication in high school.
 

Abhorsen

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Update to the cop who tased a handcuffed man in the balls after pulling down his pants. He's been given a $100 fine, no jail time, no probation. He got less than a speeding ticket for doing what would get any civilian jail time.

"But we need more cops..."



Oh, and a new one:

 

bintananth

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Abhorsen

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They'll never admit it and it's probably not written down anywhere ... cops do have traffic citation quotas because of all that sweet sweet ticket revenue.

This cop was a) being a dick and b) attempting to manufacture an excuse to write one.
No he wasn't. The guy was speeding, the cop could have turned on his lights and pulled him over. But instead, the cop decided to try to brake check motorcyclist. That's murderous road rage when done to a motorcyclist.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
No he wasn't. The guy was speeding, the cop could have turned on his lights and pulled him over. But instead, the cop decided to try to brake check motorcyclist. That's murderous road rage when done to a motorcyclist.

Said it elsewhere, but I really do fear that at some point, some incensed civie will draw a gun and shoot cops who pull that crap in the face.

As much as I don’t like it, these badge-wearing idiots are begging for a violent confrontation, so if this guy gets shot the next time he break-checks someone… well, again, that’d certainly be bad, but I won’t feel all that sorry for him. Just sorry for the friends and family he leaves behind by being a thuggish and provocative ass who thinks he’s untouchable.
 

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