United States Professor David Azerrad Verbally Owns American Conservatism

The Name of Love

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David Azerrad said:
What is conservatism in America today? It’s hundreds of millions of dollars a year spent fiddling while Rome burns. It’s ideas with little to no consequence. It’s getting trampled all over by History, but while yelling Stop!

Conservatism is the seven cheers for capitalism and the deafening silence on demographic change, feminism, and corporate malfeasance. It’s the same tired cast of speakers blathering about limited government almost a century after the New Deal. It’s the platitudinous Reagan quotes and the worn-out Buckley anecdotes. It’s the mindless optimism and the childish exhortations—if something can’t go on forever, it won’t!

If it were only that, conservatism would simply be a harmless persuasion for nostalgic Baby Boomers. Or to be more generous, one big Benedict Option to offer a semblance of an alternative to the pervasive progressivism of our age.

But conservatism is also the endless wars, the nation-building, and the outdated alliances. It’s the free trade fetish. It’s the foolish libertarianism that hates the government more than it loves America. It’s the unconscionable refusal to clamp down on immigration.

Worst of all, conservatism is the cowardice and accommodation in the face of leftist hegemony. It’s the long list of enemies to the Right. It’s the court eunuchs and other members of the controlled opposition who offer an echo, but never a choice. It’s the faux grandstanding while living in fear of being called a racist.

Admittedly, this is not the whole of conservatism. There are still dissidents, contrarian thinkers, and courageous gadflies who refuse to lick the boots that crush them. Alas, their voices are, more often than not, drowned out by those of the conservative establishment.

If this is conservatism, then we may be inclined to say, let the conservatives keep it. Perhaps the time has come for patriotic Americans tired of the Left desecrating all they hold dear to go beyond conservatism?
Read it here. It's like the words were taken from my mind and written eloquently.
 

Alathon

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Read it here. It's like the words were taken from my mind and written eloquently.
Okay, I concur, but now what? We're in the weak men make hard times part of the cycle of civilizations, and because the various western civilizations are tightly interlinked most of them are synced up. What should we do with that?

Nut in tinder sluts and seek companionship from anime waifus?
Accelerate the fall of the Republic with an eye towards Empire?
Build an Ark?
 

The Name of Love

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Okay, I concur, but now what? We're in the weak men make hard times part of the cycle of civilizations, and because the various western civilizations are tightly interlinked most of them are synced up. What should we do with that?
Well, the first thing that ought to happen is sort of abandoning what doesn't work and embracing what's truly important. American Constitutional Conservatism is essentially the White Man's Ghost Dance. That requires the Right to become self-reflective and self-aware, something that it currently lacks.
 

LordsFire

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Well, the first thing that ought to happen is sort of abandoning what doesn't work and embracing what's truly important. American Constitutional Conservatism is essentially the White Man's Ghost Dance. That requires the Right to become self-reflective and self-aware, something that it currently lacks.
You talk about the Right like it's some kind of monolith. It very much is not; one of the primary problems is that there's substantial division about what needs to be done.
 

The Name of Love

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You talk about the Right like it's some kind of monolith. It very much is not; one of the primary problems is that there's substantial division about what needs to be done.
I don't believe the Right is a monolith. Still, self-reflection is something that all members of the Right ought to be looking into.
 

Alathon

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Well, the first thing that ought to happen is sort of abandoning what doesn't work and embracing what's truly important. American Constitutional Conservatism is essentially the White Man's Ghost Dance. That requires the Right to become self-reflective and self-aware, something that it currently lacks.
As Azerrad's article notes, there is no reason for the powers-that-be in the GOP or conservative think tanks to do any such thing. They profit handsomely from the status quo, and expect a place in the high tower on the hill, no matter what manner of creatures flood the valleys. Whatever we're doing we had best count them out. Even when pressured by populist celebrities like Trump they seem to prefer fighting him to actually defending their alleged values.

Older conservatives mostly cannot be expected to change. The boomer babies got to live high on the hog, spending down social capital while taking out loans against their children to finance their habits. They tend to be narcissistic and have no interest in admitting they have done such things when they can focus on alcohol, sportsball, drama, travel, and continue to live the life they "earned" through their pensions, social security, and 401k. They have plenty of media, entertainment, and chemicals to drown out any complaints.

Among the younger crowds there is already growing awareness of the necessity of identitarianism and tradition, things Conservatives rejected or paid lip service to. They are in the process of doing what you describe -- but a lot of people aren't gonna go there with them, not having grown up easy with unlimited food and cellphones. Taking risks? Accepting sacrifices? Won't come naturally.

I'm not saying "abandon your posts, flee for your lives" but I don't think contemplation is gonna be enough. Also ... I think we should consider the possibility that a role in this time will not be to win the day, but to preserve and perpetuate the tools that will let those fifty or a hundred years later win their day.
 

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Well, the first thing that ought to happen is sort of abandoning what doesn't work and embracing what's truly important. American Constitutional Conservatism is essentially the White Man's Ghost Dance. That requires the Right to become self-reflective and self-aware, something that it currently lacks.
What do you ask of Conservatives who very much do want to preserve the Constitution, then? Especially those that are well aware of the scope of the Left's influence.
 

The Name of Love

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What do you ask of Conservatives who very much do want to preserve the Constitution, then? Especially those that are well aware of the scope of the Left's influence.
To let go of their attachment to a lost cause. To find something effective to do rather than waste time defending a document that, in a few years' time, will be used as a cudgel to push for the latest "Civil Rights" cause.

I'm not saying "abandon your posts, flee for your lives" but I don't think contemplation is gonna be enough. Also ... I think we should consider the possibility that a role in this time will not be to win the day, but to preserve and perpetuate the tools that will let those fifty or a hundred years later win their day.
Contemplation is necessary, not sufficient.
 

Curved_Sw0rd

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To let go of their attachment to a lost cause. To find something effective to do rather than waste time defending a document that, in a few years' time, will be used as a cudgel to push for the latest "Civil Rights" cause.
Alright, let's walk this through. What parts of the Constitution do you think are a lost cause or otherwise not worth fighting for? Freedom of Speech? Bearing Arms? Private Property ala the Fifth?
 

Lanmandragon

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To let go of their attachment to a lost cause. To find something effective to do rather than waste time defending a document that, in a few years' time, will be used as a cudgel to push for the latest "Civil Rights" cause.


Contemplation is necessary, not sufficient.
That might be a thing we could do. We aren't going to bow to Rome though. I like and even respect you but alot of us aren't Christans let alone papists.
 

Alathon

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To let go of their attachment to a lost cause. To find something effective to do rather than waste time defending a document that, in a few years' time, will be used as a cudgel to push for the latest "Civil Rights" cause.


Contemplation is necessary, not sufficient.
Agreed. I'm pushing you to declare a plank, or at least part of one. Policies you and I ought to partake of, constituted of physical actions, and the logic that supports them.

I'll start off with a policy of my own: right-thinking men and women of any stripe must accept that left-tech (twitter, facebook, google, amazon, etc) is enemy ground and treat it as enemy ground. Withdraw every single dollar of custom we once granted them, and utilize them only for attack and propaganda, minimizing or removing any benefit hostile entities can derive from us.
 

Lanmandragon

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Agreed. I'm pushing you to declare a plank, or at least part of one. Policies you and I ought to partake of, constituted of physical actions, and the logic that supports them.

I'll start off with a policy of my own: right-thinking men and women of any stripe must accept that left-tech (twitter, facebook, google, amazon, etc) is enemy ground and treat it as enemy ground. Withdraw every single dollar of custom we once granted them, and utilize them only for attack and propaganda, minimizing or removing any benefit hostile entities can derive from us.
Why not outlaw them wholesale? Boycotts will fail they'll get money from Bejing.
 

Alathon

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Why not outlaw them wholesale? Boycotts will fail they'll get money from Bejing.
The rationale is not to end them. We have no reason to believe we can such a thing, we have spent sixty years permitting a long march through the institutions. A second Trump term could harm individual corporations but probably won't matter in the long run, and even attempts by the President of the United States would likely be blocked by stalling with court cases for a few years, as they have with DACA and the wall. Even a friendly supreme court will be corrected and their rulings reverted by 2028-2032, with packing if necessary.

The rationale is self-defense. Removing ourselves from environments where we are propagandized to by the enemy, on the enemies terms, with the aid and support of administrative authorities who can simply vanish the information they do not want on their platform. As twitter, youtube, google, facebook, and the like, are now doing today. These environments are sick, they are struggle session and Cheka police state all in one.

We can expect any alternatives we build to be attacked relentlessly, and should expect that some of them will fail, but it is better to have our own venues under our own authority whenever possible.
 

The Name of Love

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Alright, let's walk this through. What parts of the Constitution do you think are a lost cause or otherwise not worth fighting for? Freedom of Speech? Bearing Arms? Private Property ala the Fifth?
Let me put this into what you can understand: the Left 1) doesn't really care about the original intent of the Constitution and 2) has ultimate control over how the Constitution is interpreted. Those things combined means that nobody but the odd "Federalist" judge appointed by some Republican is going to actually interpret it as being protective of our rights, and even then, that's debatable. So, "appointing more Republican judges" isn't going to actually get us to the win condition.

That might be a thing we could do. We aren't going to bow to Rome though. I like and even respect you but alot of us aren't Christans let alone papists.
Hey, you know me. If I thought America needed to become a Catholic integralist state, I'd have made a thread arguing for such a position by now.

Agreed. I'm pushing you to declare a plank, or at least part of one. Policies you and I ought to partake of, constituted of physical actions, and the logic that supports them.

I'll start off with a policy of my own: right-thinking men and women of any stripe must accept that left-tech (twitter, facebook, google, amazon, etc) is enemy ground and treat it as enemy ground. Withdraw every single dollar of custom we once granted them, and utilize them only for attack and propaganda, minimizing or removing any benefit hostile entities can derive from us.
These tech companies are a problem. Online free speech platforms are pretty good. At bare minimum, you need a platform that won't just target right-wingers that wander off the reservation or get too big.

Besides these, the three things that right-wingers ought to be doing IRL: pursuing truth through developing new theory and creating institutions to pass this theory forward into the future; creating good art based on our values; and creating communities of virtue. These will be difficult, and it won't get us immediate results. But it will get us accomplishing our ultimate goal, which is to create counter-progressive communities that the mainstream will be forced to acknowledge and bargain with.
 

Curved_Sw0rd

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Let me put this into what you can understand: the Left 1) doesn't really care about the original intent of the Constitution and 2) has ultimate control over how the Constitution is interpreted. Those things combined means that nobody but the odd "Federalist" judge appointed by some Republican is going to actually interpret it as being protective of our rights, and even then, that's debatable. So, "appointing more Republican judges" isn't going to actually get us to the win condition.
I'm well aware the Left doesn't give a fuck. And I'm well aware SCOTUS can biff it hard. That doesn't really answer my question, though.

What parts of the Constitution are not worth protecting? To be additionally clear, in the context of ideas, or laws necessary for a society.
 

Alathon

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I'm well aware the Left doesn't give a fuck. And I'm well aware SCOTUS can biff it hard. That doesn't really answer my question, though.

What parts of the Constitution are not worth protecting? To be additionally clear, in the context of ideas, or laws necessary for a society.
@The Name of Love 's position does not appear predicated on the idea that the Constitution does not have merit. I do not think he has claimed any such thing, either.

It seems to me that his position is that, because our enemies hold themselves morally obligated to reject rule of law when it would get in the way of progress, and have a long history of doing so, and will in a decade or so have the ability to do so at will, defense of Constitutional rule of law is as useful as guarding the Maginot Line. Leftists don't care, they go around. It's fucked up that they choose to discard something that was such a useful tool, a really solid work of law and reason, but they're cultural marxists. They don't accept such limits and attempting to defend ourselves through them is utterly doomed.

So, it's not that the Constitution is not worthy of defense -- it is that said defensive position will no longer be tenable within our lifetimes, so we need to focus our efforts elsewhere.
 

Largo

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Well, the first thing that ought to happen is sort of abandoning what doesn't work and embracing what's truly important. American Constitutional Conservatism is essentially the White Man's Ghost Dance. That requires the Right to become self-reflective and self-aware, something that it currently lacks.
Okay. What is important? That blurb of yours spends a great deal time talking about what isn't important, but it doesn't talk about what is. And as far as I'm concerned, the only real conservative alternatives are monarchism or fascism.
 

The Name of Love

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Okay. What is important? That blurb of yours spends a great deal time talking about what isn't important, but it doesn't talk about what is. And as far as I'm concerned, the only real conservative alternatives are monarchism or fascism.
Our Faith. Our traditions. The cozy things. Things we want to move forward with and can help us resist nonsense. This isn't about what the ideal government we're going to set up in some hypothetical conservative paradise. It's about what will actually help us ride out the storm.
 

Curved_Sw0rd

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@The Name of Love 's position does not appear predicated on the idea that the Constitution does not have merit. I do not think he has claimed any such thing, either.

It seems to me that his position is that, because our enemies hold themselves morally obligated to reject rule of law when it would get in the way of progress, and have a long history of doing so, and will in a decade or so have the ability to do so at will, defense of Constitutional rule of law is as useful as guarding the Maginot Line. Leftists don't care, they go around. It's fucked up that they choose to discard something that was such a useful tool, a really solid work of law and reason, but they're cultural marxists. They don't accept such limits and attempting to defend ourselves through them is utterly doomed.

So, it's not that the Constitution is not worthy of defense -- it is that said defensive position will no longer be tenable within our lifetimes, so we need to focus our efforts elsewhere.
I see... Apologies to @The Name of Love then. Though I admit I'm not convinced it's all so hopeless, that there's no rolling this back.
 
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