EU Political Suppression of Alternative für Deutschland

LindyAF

Well-known member
This is slightly off topic, and I am only responding here because @Airedale260's comments made me think they were unaware that some political speech was criminalized in Germany. If anyone wishes to argue in favor of criminalization of that speech, feel free to start your own thread.

I also suggest that if you want to talk about other discussions even more tangential to the political suppression of nationalists in Europe, make a new thread for that?
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Ironically, the current behaviour of the German establishment does nothing but strengthen the AfD. Suppressing the feeling of a good chunk of the population does not make it go away, it only galvanizes and attracts more to their banner as more and more people just become fed up with an inept, drunk on power establishment. This pattern is repeating throughout Europe and I think it's inevitable the nationalists emerge victorious. The only question is just what kind of mess will they have to fix by then?

Edit: Just to emphasise how stuffed the current crop of elites are, it took them a global pandemic and election shenanigans to slow down the American nationalists. Not stop. Slow down.
 

Airedale260

Well-known member
There are others, but just off the top of my head, Ursula Haverbeck has been repeatedly jailed and is currently in jail for speech deemed criminal in Germany. You can find this information in a number of mainstream sources, including wikipedia, although the only sources I can find that have reported on her most recent imprisonment are German-language.

No, that’s fine. You provided the citation, which I genuinely do appreciate and thank you for.

As far as Haverbeck herself goes, all I can say is I’m grateful for the First Amendment. And yes, per your other comment, I am aware that certain political speech is criminalized in Germany, but that’s partly because we and the rest of the Allies forced that on them as part of de-Nazification and the ending of the formal occupation. I’m not saying that because I like the idea of criminalizing speech - I don’t. Rather, no matter how odious I may find said speech, I take the position that the best response is “more speech”.

My take on your comment suggested that this was more along the lines of people who were publicizing the fact that the Cologne rapes were the work of Muslim men and that they did it with impunity and weren’t punished, which, while politically inconvenient, is something that has to be acknowledged because it does pose a threat to about half the population of the country.

Ironically, the current behaviour of the German establishment does nothing but strengthen the AfD. Suppressing the feeling of a good chunk of the population does not make it go away, it only galvanizes and attracts more to their banner as more and more people just become fed up with an inept, drunk on power establishment. This pattern is repeating throughout Europe and I think it's inevitable the nationalists emerge victorious. The only question is just what kind of mess will they have to fix by then?

Exactly. The Italians just brought a guy in to be their PM despite him not being a member of the Italian parliament because they’re afraid of Lega winning elections if they were to be called now, because Italy is a monumental clusterfuck and it would have ramifications across Europe if they won and in turn flipped the EU the bird, which would almost certainly happen because the EU is itself a massive dumpster fire.

And I don’t know what the result would be. I do, however, know that this is yet one more reason I thank God every day that I’m an American.
 
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Navarro

Well-known member
Machine guns and howitzers make everything pretty damn conceivable.

Not to mention that the "heroic mentality" of medieval warfare died precisely because of gunpowder weapons, which enabled the creation of large professional armies, similar to the Roman model but easier to raise. And of course any proto-state which banned the use of gunpowder to preserve the dominance of the armoured knight as the acme of warfare ... simply wouldn't survive.
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Not to mention that the "heroic mentality" of medieval warfare died precisely because of gunpowder weapons, which enabled the creation of large professional armies, similar to the Roman model but easier to raise. And of course any proto-state which banned the use of gunpowder to preserve the dominance of the armoured knight as the acme of warfare ... simply wouldn't survive.

Not to mention that Medieval Knights were getting trashed by longbows and pikes two hundred years before gunpowder really started being used.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Not to mention that Medieval Knights were getting trashed by longbows and pikes two hundred years before gunpowder really started being used.
There never really was a hero mentality that went away. Even now we have the cult of special forces. I mean even in ancient times champions were rare and they were not superhuman warriors like Achillies. A dozen spear men will kill any one soldier no matter how skilled unless that soldier gets away from the battle and does things to negate the advantage of numbers. Even in the Middle Ages knights weren’t super weapons they were probably the most powerful unit on a pound for pound basis. But they needed support and you don’t rely on them entirely combined arms using your whole army together to maximize results is how great commanders achieved victory. I mean tanks are powerful weapons but infantry can still take them out.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
There never really was a hero mentality that went away. Even now we have the cult of special forces. I mean even in ancient times champions were rare and they were not superhuman warriors like Achillies. A dozen spear men will kill any one soldier no matter how skilled unless that soldier gets away from the battle and does things to negate the advantage of numbers. Even in the Middle Ages knights weren’t super weapons they were probably the most powerful unit on a pound for pound basis. But they needed support and you don’t rely on them entirely combined arms using your whole army together to maximize results is how great commanders achieved victory. I mean tanks are powerful weapons but infantry can still take them out.

So the "heroic mindset" has never wholly disappeared and wasn't such a pre-eminent factor in pre-modern warfare as certain people have presented it as. Quelle surprise.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Europeans, barring a few remarkable exceptions have this serious problem of mindless obedience and extraordinary levels of self hatred. I think its an unholy fusion of the loss of their identities after two world wars and the rise of the US and Asia and a cultural holdover from the days of feudalism.
It is modern state.Till we have feudal ones,nobody would mindlees follow anybody.And since modern prussian state was worst and they remodeled other germans to look ile them,most modern germans are as mindless obedient as prussians were.
Medieval germans was as normal as any other medieval europeans.
 
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