EU Political Suppression of Alternative für Deutschland

LindyAF

Well-known member
At least in the U.S. and UK you don't have to worry about this with FPTP -the real extremists don't last. For all the jerking off some people do to the idea of proportional representation it's actually much worse at dealing with political crises and realignments.

This has some truth to it. Of course from my side this statement is something like "the parasitic system which dominates all western countries is better able to thwart a nationalist threat to it."

However, this is a double edged sword. With proportional representation, nationalists can start our own parties, and be successful- like AfD in Germany, National Rally in France, Lega in Italy- and win through ousting the neoliberal/neoconservative so-called mainstream parties. With FPTP, it's true that any third party is dead on arrival, so this isn't an option. But if nationalists can succeed in "taking over" an existing party, then we can immediately leverage that into national competitiveness.
 

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
Europeans, barring a few remarkable exceptions have this serious problem of mindless obedience and extraordinary levels of self hatred. I think its an unholy fusion of the loss of their identities after two world wars and the rise of the US and Asia and a cultural holdover from the days of feudalism.
Medieval peasants? Obedient?
Bundschuh movement - Wikipedia
Hussite Wars - Wikipedia
German Peasants' War - Wikipedia
If anything, it's the war guilt after WW2 that changed Germany.
 

Airedale260

Well-known member

The BfV just got slapped down in court. Unless AfD tries something on the level of the Beer Hall Putsch, there’s no justification for investigating or banning a political party simply because one finds their views odious.

Hell, if the German government actually bothered to take into account what the public actually wants rather than ignore them as peasants to be ruled, they wouldn’t have to worry about AfD. But since the major parties in German politics are all stuck on stupid, AfD is gaining.
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman

The BfV just got slapped down in court. Unless AfD tries something on the level of the Beer Hall Putsch, there’s no justification for investigating or banning a political party simply because one finds their views odious.

Which just means the BfV will buy their surveillance from FIVE EYES countries and multinational telecoms.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member

The BfV just got slapped down in court.

This is obviously very good and good progress, but it should be noted this is only a stay on surveillance while AfD's legal challenge is heard, rather than a permanent block on the BfV from surveilling the opponents of the regime.

Also, given your other comments I think it needs to be noted that occupied Germany does not have free speech in any real sense and people are in fact currently in jail for political speech and views.
 

Airedale260

Well-known member
Which just means the BfV will buy their surveillance from FIVE EYES countries and multinational telecoms.

That's...not even remotely how the Five Eyes work. At all. More to the point, given all the other pressing issues, why the fuck would they care what AfD is up to instead of focusing on threats like China and Iran? Hell, four of the nations are located on the Pacific Rim and the fifth has a long association with the other four. Unless they stumble upon something strongly suggesting AfD is about to commit a terrorist attack, they won't waste their time.

Plus the telecom providers don't have that kind of impunity, because that's a great way to get sued, fined, and dismantled for violating the law. They don't get immunity just because the BfV asks them to do what they legally can't.

This is obviously very good and good progress, but it should be noted this is only a stay on surveillance while AfD's legal challenge is heard, rather than a permanent block on the BfV from surveilling the opponents of the regime.

Also, given your other comments I think it needs to be noted that occupied Germany does not have free speech in any real sense and people are in fact currently in jail for political speech and views.

"Occupied Germany"? When we did we wind up in the 1940s? And may I please have a citation on Germany arresting political opponents? Something that I can read and isn't some random YouTube video?

Thank you in advance. And I am genuinely asking. If it comes off as condescending I do apologize. But I'm a very skeptical person by nature about claims.
 
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Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
That's...not even remotely how the Five Eyes work. At all. More to the point, given all the other pressing issues, why the fuck would they care what AfD is up to instead of focusing on threats like China and Iran? Hell, four of the nations are located on the Pacific Rim and the fifth has a long association with the other four. Unless they stumble upon something strongly suggesting AfD is about to commit a terrorist attack, they won't waste their time.
Because it is easier to spy on domestic enemies, and because they are just that petty and short-sighted. You have to remember the kind of people you're dealing with here are the same ones who were more concerned with the idea that people might become racist if they told the truth about the Cologne attacks than in actually doing anything about them or pursuing justice. ;)
 

Airedale260

Well-known member
Because it is easier to spy on domestic enemies, and because they are just that petty and short-sighted. You have to remember the kind of people you're dealing with here are the same ones who were more concerned with the idea that people might become racist if they told the truth about the Cologne attacks than in actually doing anything about them or pursuing justice. ;)

Which...doesn’t actually provide an answer to my point. AfD isn’t a domestic enemy of any of the Five Eyes, and given current relations between Germany (and the EU for that matter) and the Five Eyes members (including the two best placed to have any info on such queries), they’re more likely to tell Germany to fuck off and then leak it to the press that the BfV pulled such a stunt.

I’m well aware of the SJW mentality among German officials, but I’m asking for hard evidence that they’ve actually started rounding up political dissidents. I’m fairly certain that would be making headlines, either as a “WTF, Germany?” or “Germany has the right idea” depending on the news outlet in question.
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
Perception of not the historical reality.

True, there is a black legend of peasant chattel slavery, but what really broke the European spirit was early modernity and the collapse of living standards due to the rise of liberal capitalism and the destruction of the old privileges of the peasantry in favor of setting everyone 'free' to be citizens, free to starve if they couldn't sharecrop or find a factory to work in.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
True, there is a black legend of peasant chattel slavery, but what really broke the European spirit was early modernity and the collapse of living standards due to the rise of liberal capitalism and the destruction of the old privileges of the peasantry in favor of setting everyone 'free' to be citizens, free to starve if they couldn't sharecrop or find a factory to work in.

What ultimately destroyed Europe was deconstructivist thinking.
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
True, there is a black legend of peasant chattel slavery, but what really broke the European spirit was early modernity and the collapse of living standards due to the rise of liberal capitalism and the destruction of the old privileges of the peasantry in favor of setting everyone 'free' to be citizens, free to starve if they couldn't sharecrop or find a factory to work in.

The twin catastrophes of the World Wars (and all the wrong lessons being learned from them) are pretty damn crucial to how Europe has ended up in its current mess. Things were chuntering along not too badly beforehand.
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
The twin catastrophes of the World Wars (and all the wrong lessons being learned from them) are pretty damn crucial to how Europe has ended up in its current mess. Things were chuntering along not too badly beforehand.

Modernity damaged the European mentality and world view. The Great War murdered a generation of Elites on all sides. The one lead to the other.
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Modernity damaged the European mentality and world view. The Great War murdered a generation of Elites on all sides. The one lead to the other.

Hm? Nah.

Europeans, like all other peoples of the world, have been butchering each other for whatever reason since the dawn of civilisation. Modernity just coincides with us starting to really use gunpowder. If anything, a tad bit of restraint starts filtering in then. Compare the fall of Troy and Carthage to a European city being stormed in the 18th century.

Technological development and labyrinthine alliances were what set off the Great War, which inevitably lead into the Second World War. Just the right number of variables coming together for the perfect shit show.
 

DocSolarisReich

Esoteric Spaceman
Hm? Nah.

Europeans, like all other peoples of the world, have been butchering each other for whatever reason since the dawn of civilisation. Modernity just coincides with us starting to really use gunpowder. If anything, a tad bit of restraint starts filtering in then. Compare the fall of Troy and Carthage to a European city being stormed in the 18th century.

Technological development and labyrinthine alliances were what set off the Great War, which inevitably lead into the Second World War. Just the right number of variables coming together for the perfect shit show.

Modern war isn’t just hell on civilians caught in the storming of a city, it’s a dysgenic slaughter of generations of fighting men, the aristos, the best combined with firebombing the mothers of the next generation from the air.

None of which would be conceivable without the death of the heroic mentality.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
And may I please have a citation on Germany arresting political opponents? Something that I can read and isn't some random YouTube video?

There are others, but just off the top of my head, Ursula Haverbeck has been repeatedly jailed and is currently in jail for speech deemed criminal in Germany. You can find this information in a number of mainstream sources, including wikipedia, although the only sources I can find that have reported on her most recent imprisonment are German-language.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Hm? Nah.

Europeans, like all other peoples of the world, have been butchering each other for whatever reason since the dawn of civilisation. Modernity just coincides with us starting to really use gunpowder. If anything, a tad bit of restraint starts filtering in then. Compare the fall of Troy and Carthage to a European city being stormed in the 18th century.

Technological development and labyrinthine alliances were what set off the Great War, which inevitably lead into the Second World War. Just the right number of variables coming together for the perfect shit show.


Modernity has happened before it happened to east asian civilizations and it happened in the mediterarian world. It apears to be a phase civilizations go through and comparing it to other modern periods we have roughly 80 more years of this shit before it ends.

Long story short its going to suck for the entire west because this is a civilizational thing not a national one.
 

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