Pokemon officially jumps the shark; now with DLC!

[Terthna]

As said in the video, this is less than what the previous two generations had in their Regional Dex; and considering the fact that they've already said the new games are not going to have a National Dex, this is unacceptable.

For those of you who haven't been paying attention, this is just the latest installment of the controversy surrounding the upcoming games for the Switch; which started when someone offhandedly mentioned in a random interview that there would be no more National Dex going forward, likely in the hopes that it would go unnoticed.

This video gives a decent summary on most of what happened since then, up to early July; as well as presents a decent theory as to why Gamefreak is doing this:



Personally; I don't really see the point anymore in playing the official games. Not when fan games, and other games in the genre, keep improving, while Gamefreak's output steadily declines in quality with each iteration. I've said this before elsewhere, but it bears repeating; Pokemon is quickly becoming the Madden of RPGs.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Ok, so for those of us who aren't huge Pokemon fans, can you contextualize some of this? Like, skimming that first video, it doesn't actually explain what a regional dex is, though it does say that the games it cited had about 400 pokemon in them, so having a few less on a newer system (which, while more powerful than the 3DS, is also presumably having to do far more than the 3DS was as far as graphics and animation go)......that sounds reasonable to me?

 

[Terthna]

Ok, so for those of us who aren't huge Pokemon fans, can you contextualize some of this? Like, skimming that first video, it doesn't actually explain what a regional dex is, though it does say that the games it cited had about 400 pokemon in them, so having a few less on a newer system (which, while more powerful than the 3DS, is also presumably having to do far more than the 3DS was as far as graphics and animation go)......that sounds reasonable to me?

The second video gives more context, but the Regional Dex is the Pokemon available to the player before post-game. In most previous games, once you beat the main story, you gained access to the National Dex, and some sort of method that would allow you to acquire or transfer Pokemon that were only available in previous titles.

As for the graphics; Sword and Shield uses the exact same models and animations for the Pokemon that have been used since Pokemon X and Y, as they were over-designed for that game to be future proof. The amount of extra work it would have taken in the graphics department to add the rest of the Pokemon is negligible at worst; particularly the ones that were in the Pokemon Let's Go, Pikachu and Eevee games for the Switch that they are also omitting.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

It seems like they have become a victim of their own success, in more way than one. And also they lacked foresight on how this whole national dex idea might become unsustainable when they first implemented it. That the roster of Pokemon would grow so large that it would become unfeasible to have them in one game. If it actually is the case, and not that being so successful has made them complacent and decadent.

 

[Terthna]

It seems like they have become a victim of their own success, in more way than one. And also they lacked foresight on how this whole national dex idea might become unsustainable when they first implemented it. That the roster of Pokemon would grow so large that it would become unfeasible to have them in one game. If it actually is the case, and not that being so successful has made them complacent and decadent.

The National Dex is far from being unsustainable; they just don't want to put in more than the bare minimum effort required to make these games. Either that, or there's a plan to use it as a selling point for the inevitable upgraded versions of the games, later down the road; which itself probably means there's not going to be much else in them that will serve as a selling point.

Seriously, watch the second video I posted in the OP; there's a lot that's going on here. Like the fact that there are two teams within Gamefreak; one of whom has been working on Little Town Hero, while the other has been working on Sword and Shield. This is damning because the former team has been admitted as being significantly larger, and having far greater access to resources than the latter, despite Pokemon being the most profitable gaming franchise ever.

In short, Gamefreak is not putting in nearly as much effort into making Sword and Shield as they are capable of doing, because people will buy the games regardless; and some are starting to notice.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Isn't that a downgrade by lowering the amount of pokemon?

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

The National Dex is far from being unsustainable; they just don't want to put in more than the bare minimum effort required to make these games. Either that, or there's a plan to use it as a selling point for the inevitable upgraded versions of the games, later down the road; which itself probably means there's not going to be much else in them that will serve as a selling point.

Seriously, watch the second video I posted in the OP; there's a lot that's going on here. Like the fact that there are two teams within Gamefreak; one of whom has been working on Little Town Hero, while the other has been working on Sword and Shield. This is damning because the former team has been admitted as being significantly larger, and having far greater access to resources than the latter, despite Pokemon being the most profitable gaming franchise ever.

In short, Gamefreak is not putting in nearly as much effort into making Sword and Shield as they are capable of doing, because people will buy the games regardless; and some are starting to notice.

So, complacency it is. Darn shame that they are letting a money printing machine fail. But really, it seems to be corporate strategy these days to slaughter the goose that laid the golden egg.

 

[Terthna]

So, complacency it is. Darn shame that they are letting a money printing machine fail. But really, it seems to be corporate strategy these days to slaughter the goose that laid the golden egg.

There's been some speculation that the runaway success of Pokemon Go led The Pokemon Company to devalue the mainline games made by Gamefreak, which caused the latter to focus most of their efforts on creating a new IP they have sole control over.

People have also begun to notice that Gamefreak was never that good at game development in the first place. For example; did you know that in Pokemon Sun and Moon, instead of having one Lillie model that the games loads every time it's needed, every single map file has a copy of her; and that this is true of basically every character model in those games? Seriously, their code is filled with so many similarly amateurish game design decisions, it a wonder they managed to put together anything playable. An actually competent studio, meanwhile, probably would have been able to make the same games will far less wasted time, effort, and resources.

Keeping all that in mind, it's not surprising that, behind the scenes, Gamefreak may be facing an ousting from the franchise they created, and are doing everything they can to ensure that they have a safety net to fall back on; even if it's at the expense of said franchise.

 

[Laskar]

There's been some speculation that the runaway success of Pokemon Go led The Pokemon Company to devalue the mainline games made by Gamefreak, which caused the latter to focus most of their efforts on creating a new IP they have sole control over.

People have also begun to notice that Gamefreak was never that good at game development in the first place. For example; did you know that in Pokemon Sun and Moon, instead of having one Lillie model that the games loads every time it's needed, every single map file has a copy of her; and that this is true of basically every character model in those games? Seriously, their code is filled with so many similarly amateurish game design decisions, it a wonder they managed to put together anything playable. An actually competent studio, meanwhile, probably would have been able to make the same games will far less wasted time, effort, and resources.

A better way to put that is that when they handed Pokemon Gold and Pokemon Silver over to a game designer who knew what he was doing, he was able to compress the game so much that they could fit the entire Kanto region on the cartridge in addition to Johto.

 

[Terthna]

A better way to put that is that when they handed Pokemon Gold and Pokemon Silver over to a game designer who knew what he was doing, he was able to compress the game so much that they could fit the entire Kanto region on the cartridge in addition to Johto.

Perhaps, but I wanted to give an example that was far more recent. But man; they've really been coasting on the one idea they had that got popular for a long time, haven't they?

 

[Laskar]

Perhaps, but I wanted to give an example that was far more recent. But man; they've really been coasting on the one idea they had that got popular for a long time, haven't they?

Go with what works. The base formula of the game is popular enough that they haven't had to innovate. I mean, aside from the Pokemon games produced by Gamefreak, how many Pokemon games have been good enough to warrant a line of sequels?

 

[Terthna]

Go with what works. The base formula of the game is popular enough that they haven't had to innovate. I mean, aside from the Pokemon games produced by Gamefreak, how many Pokemon games have been good enough to warrant a line of sequels?

Are you talking about Pokemon as a franchise, or Pokemon as a genre? Because if they actually put effort into it, either could warrant sequels. There's actually a fan game I've been interested in trying; Pokemon Insurgence. I've heard really good things about it; particularly that it's basically the Pokemon game fans wish Gamefreak was capable of making.

 

[Bigking321]

That does look pretty good. I might give it a shot. Never played a fan game before.

 

[Laskar]

Are you talking about Pokemon as a franchise, or Pokemon as a genre? Because if they actually put effort into it, either could warrant sequels. There's actually a fan game I've been interested in trying; Pokemon Insurgence. I've heard really good things about it; particularly that it's basically the Pokemon game fans wish Gamefreak was capable of making.

OK? What does this game do that the other Pokemon games don't? I see some new features in there, but two of the major ones are iterative (More mega-evolutions, a new species of Delta Pokemon) and the third one is a fad (Base building!).

 

[Terthna]

OK? What does this game do that the other Pokemon games don't? I see some new features in there, but two of the major ones are iterative (More mega-evolutions, a new species of Delta Pokemon) and the third one is a fad (Base building!).

I haven't tried it myself yet, but apparently you can also catch every single Pokemon from generations one through six in a single playthrough, without having to do any trading. The plot is also promised to be far more complex than what you'd find in an official Pokemon game made by Gamefreak, and the difficulty is supposed to be ramped up significantly by comparison as well, thanks to improved AI among other things.

 

[commanderkai]

I'm a huge fan of Pokemon. Played the games growing up. Usually I'm a generation behind, and I will admit I haven't played much of the Gen V stuff (Black 2 and White 2). I also don't own a Switch (or a 3DS). I do play Pokemon Go rather regularly.

I have liked some of the new Pokemon designs for Sword and Shield...but 400? Eesh. It sounds like a lot, but there were about 400 Pokemon in the Gameboy Advance games (386, to be exact). Before Sword and Shield, there are about 800 Pokemon. Sword and Shield will release about 90 new Pokemon. Basically you'd only be able to acquire about 40% of all previously released Pokemon (and this probably doesn't include any unique forms).

It's not a good look for Game Freak.

 

[Terthna]

So yeah; Sword and Shield have been leaked, and data miners have confirmed that the models used for the Pokemon are the same as the ones made for X and Y. It's official; Gamefreak blatantly lied when they said that they had to get rid of the National Dex, because they were creating all new models for each Pokemon.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

I haven't tried it myself yet, but apparently you can also catch every single Pokemon from generations one through six in a single playthrough, without having to do any trading. The plot is also promised to be far more complex than what you'd find in an official Pokemon game made by Gamefreak, and the difficulty is supposed to be ramped up significantly by comparison as well, thanks to improved AI among other things.

So it is beyond complacency, but it is now pure arrogance.

 

[Laskar]

I haven't tried it myself yet, but apparently you can also catch every single Pokemon from generations one through six in a single playthrough, without having to do any trading. The plot is also promised to be far more complex than what you'd find in an official Pokemon game made by Gamefreak, and the difficulty is supposed to be ramped up significantly by comparison as well, thanks to improved AI among other things.

Those are basically quality of life improvements on what is essentially the same game.

I'm a huge fan of Pokemon. Played the games growing up. Usually I'm a generation behind, and I will admit I haven't played much of the Gen V stuff (Black 2 and White 2). I also don't own a Switch (or a 3DS). I do play Pokemon Go rather regularly.

I have liked some of the new Pokemon designs for Sword and Shield...but 400? Eesh. It sounds like a lot, but there were about 400 Pokemon in the Gameboy Advance games (386, to be exact). Before Sword and Shield, there are about 800 Pokemon. Sword and Shield will release about 90 new Pokemon. Basically you'd only be able to acquire about 40% of all previously released Pokemon (and this probably doesn't include any unique forms).

So how do they balance nine hundred Pokemon, and keep most of them relevant?

 

[Terthna]

Those are basically quality of life improvements on what is essentially the same game.

Perhaps, but they're quality of life improvements that Gamefreak apparently can't be bothered to implement.